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Canadian universal healthcare, eh? Think again

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  • Canadian universal healthcare, eh? Think again

    https://www.jccf.ca/canadian-healthc...7B4w5Cn5zmEEBs

    There has never been a shortage of chest-puffing over Canadian healthcare.

    “Every Canadian, no matter where they live, who they are or what they do, should receive the care they need to stay healthy,” says Justin Trudeau.

    “Public healthcare is part of being Canadian. It’s … there for every person, when they need it,” says Alberta NDP Leader Rachel Notley.

    “Canada’s system of universal health care is perceived by many as the crowning achievement of Canadian social policy.” (Allen vs. Alberta, 2015 ABCA 277)

    What does “universal” mean? It simply means what it says: it’s for everyone.

    So, in Canada, Canadians in need get treatment. Whether you’re liberal or conservative, black or white, gay or straight, old or young, employed or unemployed, healthy or unhealthy you get treatment. Our health care system is there for you if you’re a smoker with lung cancer, an alcoholic, a murderer, a drug dealer or a prisoner. If you’re a heroin addict and you’ve overdosed nine times in the last nine months, they still send the paramedics for you when you take your next bad trip.

    The state pays for it all, and by the state, I mean the taxpayer.

    There is, however, an exception to universality. Increasingly, it turns out that not all are welcome.

    You likely know who the new modern pariahs are.

    They are the same ones who are now forbidden to travel; who cannot enter restaurants; who are losing their jobs by the tens of thousands. They are the ones who do not have one of the new golden QR codes which open the doors of society for the privileged, even though many of them have had Covid and recovered, and have natural immunity which is said to be superior to shot-induced immunity.

    Shamefully, in Canada, doctors are increasingly discriminating against those who are pejoratively referred to by government and the media alike as “the unvaccinated.”

    Vilifying a group of people as dirty or disease spreaders has long been a part of the totalitarian playbook.

    In August, the Enderby Medical Clinic refused to see a 13-year-old who had fallen off of his skateboard. It was irrelevant the child has almost zero statistical risk from Covid. It was irrelevant that both the vaccinated and unvaccinated both contract and spread Covid at roughly equal rates. He hadn’t had the shot, so he was therefore banned from the “universal” healthcare clinic. Also in Enderby, a man was turned away from a clinic due to his Covid vaccination status after he got chlorine in his eye.

    In Montreal, the sole surviving family member and caregiver of a loved one in the hospital was turned away because she has not had the Covid jab. In Alberta, a medical team is refusing to perform a transplant operation for a patient who has a terminal lung disease, and who will die without the transplant.

    A recent media request for confirmation from all provinces and territories regarding how many are being turned away revealed that Alberta does not track this information. Ontario reported 68 complaints had been received, but this also included complaints regarding a lack of in-person care generally.


    In a country where health officials closely monitor the public, it seems once again there is insufficient oversight of health officials. And apparently, at least according to a recent poll, the majority of Canadians agree with the refusal of service to belligerent unvaccinated persons. Not sure who thought that brilliant polling question up. News flash: emergency rooms on a Saturday night have plenty of drunken and belligerent vaccinated patients, all of whom receive treatment.

    The bigger point is medical ethics prohibits discrimination regarding the provision of health care. The Hippocratic Oath offers no defense to the bigoted doctor who refuses to treat a patient who has decided not to submit to one of the new mandatory Covid shots. The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms offers no defense to a doctor who, as a state actor in a supposedly “universal” system, discriminates against an unvaccinated patient. Doctors should not pick and choose who they treat on the basis of their identifiable characteristics, including their Covid vaccination status.

    It’s not only unconstitutional to turn away patients because of medical bigotry and elitism, it is also immoral.


    When are people going to wake up!


    Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

  • #2
    Originally posted by mossrose View Post
    It’s not only unconstitutional to turn away patients because of medical bigotry and elitism, it is also immoral.
    Ultimately it is a failure to love.
    ~ Russell ("MelMak")

    "[Sing] and [make] melody in your heart to the Lord." -- Ephesians 5:19b

    Fight_spam!

    Comment


    • #3
      It's not universal healthcare, it's universal health insurance. The lie we've all been sold (including here in the United States) is that health insurance is synonymous with healthcare.
      Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
      But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
      Than a fool in the eyes of God


      From "Fools Gold" by Petra

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
        It's not universal healthcare, it's universal health insurance. The lie we've all been sold (including here in the United States) is that health insurance is synonymous with healthcare.
        It works when it works. It also doesn’t work most of the time, and is a gaping, sucking money pit.

        And I think insurance works better. At least if you had insurance and needed an organ transplant, they wouldn’t turn you away if you weren’t vaccinated.

        Well, maybe they would, I guess…


        Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by mossrose View Post

          It works when it works. It also doesn’t work most of the time, and is a gaping, sucking money pit.

          And I think insurance works better. At least if you had insurance and needed an organ transplant, they wouldn’t turn you away if you weren’t vaccinated.

          Well, maybe they would, I guess…
          Right, which is why health insurance =/= healthcare. It just means that whatever healthcare you get will be paid for, but you're not guaranteed to receive it, or in some cases you can receive it, but it's not guaranteed that insurance will pay for it.

          Basically, health insurance is a big mess. But that, of course, is a separate issue from doctors denying treatment because someone isn't vaccinated against the China flu, despite the fact that the currently available vaccines do not prevent you from contracting or transmitting the virus as readily as someone who is unvaccinated, nor do they stop people from becoming deathly ill from it.
          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
          Than a fool in the eyes of God


          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

          Comment


          • #6
            Wasn't there a female US celebrity who died from a minor ailment while in Canada a couple of decades ago because she couldn't get adequate treatment? I'm sketchy on the details.
            When I Survey....

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by mossrose View Post
              https://www.jccf.ca/canadian-healthc...7B4w5Cn5zmEEBs

              There has never been a shortage of chest-puffing over Canadian healthcare.

              “Every Canadian, no matter where they live, who they are or what they do, should receive the care they need to stay healthy,” says Justin Trudeau.

              “Public healthcare is part of being Canadian. It’s … there for every person, when they need it,” says Alberta NDP Leader Rachel Notley.

              “Canada’s system of universal health care is perceived by many as the crowning achievement of Canadian social policy.” (Allen vs. Alberta, 2015 ABCA 277)

              What does “universal” mean? It simply means what it says: it’s for everyone.

              So, in Canada, Canadians in need get treatment. Whether you’re liberal or conservative, black or white, gay or straight, old or young, employed or unemployed, healthy or unhealthy you get treatment. Our health care system is there for you if you’re a smoker with lung cancer, an alcoholic, a murderer, a drug dealer or a prisoner. If you’re a heroin addict and you’ve overdosed nine times in the last nine months, they still send the paramedics for you when you take your next bad trip.

              The state pays for it all, and by the state, I mean the taxpayer.

              There is, however, an exception to universality. Increasingly, it turns out that not all are welcome.

              You likely know who the new modern pariahs are.

              They are the same ones who are now forbidden to travel; who cannot enter restaurants; who are losing their jobs by the tens of thousands. They are the ones who do not have one of the new golden QR codes which open the doors of society for the privileged, even though many of them have had Covid and recovered, and have natural immunity which is said to be superior to shot-induced immunity.

              Shamefully, in Canada, doctors are increasingly discriminating against those who are pejoratively referred to by government and the media alike as “the unvaccinated.”

              Vilifying a group of people as dirty or disease spreaders has long been a part of the totalitarian playbook.

              In August, the Enderby Medical Clinic refused to see a 13-year-old who had fallen off of his skateboard. It was irrelevant the child has almost zero statistical risk from Covid. It was irrelevant that both the vaccinated and unvaccinated both contract and spread Covid at roughly equal rates. He hadn’t had the shot, so he was therefore banned from the “universal” healthcare clinic. Also in Enderby, a man was turned away from a clinic due to his Covid vaccination status after he got chlorine in his eye.

              In Montreal, the sole surviving family member and caregiver of a loved one in the hospital was turned away because she has not had the Covid jab. In Alberta, a medical team is refusing to perform a transplant operation for a patient who has a terminal lung disease, and who will die without the transplant.

              A recent media request for confirmation from all provinces and territories regarding how many are being turned away revealed that Alberta does not track this information. Ontario reported 68 complaints had been received, but this also included complaints regarding a lack of in-person care generally.


              In a country where health officials closely monitor the public, it seems once again there is insufficient oversight of health officials. And apparently, at least according to a recent poll, the majority of Canadians agree with the refusal of service to belligerent unvaccinated persons. Not sure who thought that brilliant polling question up. News flash: emergency rooms on a Saturday night have plenty of drunken and belligerent vaccinated patients, all of whom receive treatment.

              The bigger point is medical ethics prohibits discrimination regarding the provision of health care. The Hippocratic Oath offers no defense to the bigoted doctor who refuses to treat a patient who has decided not to submit to one of the new mandatory Covid shots. The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms offers no defense to a doctor who, as a state actor in a supposedly “universal” system, discriminates against an unvaccinated patient. Doctors should not pick and choose who they treat on the basis of their identifiable characteristics, including their Covid vaccination status.

              It’s not only unconstitutional to turn away patients because of medical bigotry and elitism, it is also immoral.


              When are people going to wake up!
              It's been quite entertaining watch the people who just a year ago were screaming about health care being a human right, a fundamental human right that everyone has and should be provided for, transform into folks doing stuff like this.
              "So when you actually get the virus, you're going to start producing antibodies against multiple pieces of the virus. So, your antibodies are probably better at that point than the vaccination."
              - Pfizer Scientist Chris Croce

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by mossrose View Post
                https://www.jccf.ca/canadian-healthc...7B4w5Cn5zmEEBs

                There has never been a shortage of chest-puffing over Canadian healthcare.

                “Every Canadian, no matter where they live, who they are or what they do, should receive the care they need to stay healthy,” says Justin Trudeau.

                “Public healthcare is part of being Canadian. It’s … there for every person, when they need it,” says Alberta NDP Leader Rachel Notley.

                “Canada’s system of universal health care is perceived by many as the crowning achievement of Canadian social policy.” (Allen vs. Alberta, 2015 ABCA 277)

                What does “universal” mean? It simply means what it says: it’s for everyone.

                So, in Canada, Canadians in need get treatment. Whether you’re liberal or conservative, black or white, gay or straight, old or young, employed or unemployed, healthy or unhealthy you get treatment. Our health care system is there for you if you’re a smoker with lung cancer, an alcoholic, a murderer, a drug dealer or a prisoner. If you’re a heroin addict and you’ve overdosed nine times in the last nine months, they still send the paramedics for you when you take your next bad trip.

                The state pays for it all, and by the state, I mean the taxpayer.

                There is, however, an exception to universality. Increasingly, it turns out that not all are welcome.

                You likely know who the new modern pariahs are.

                They are the same ones who are now forbidden to travel; who cannot enter restaurants; who are losing their jobs by the tens of thousands. They are the ones who do not have one of the new golden QR codes which open the doors of society for the privileged, even though many of them have had Covid and recovered, and have natural immunity which is said to be superior to shot-induced immunity.

                Shamefully, in Canada, doctors are increasingly discriminating against those who are pejoratively referred to by government and the media alike as “the unvaccinated.”

                Vilifying a group of people as dirty or disease spreaders has long been a part of the totalitarian playbook.

                In August, the Enderby Medical Clinic refused to see a 13-year-old who had fallen off of his skateboard. It was irrelevant the child has almost zero statistical risk from Covid. It was irrelevant that both the vaccinated and unvaccinated both contract and spread Covid at roughly equal rates. He hadn’t had the shot, so he was therefore banned from the “universal” healthcare clinic. Also in Enderby, a man was turned away from a clinic due to his Covid vaccination status after he got chlorine in his eye.

                In Montreal, the sole surviving family member and caregiver of a loved one in the hospital was turned away because she has not had the Covid jab. In Alberta, a medical team is refusing to perform a transplant operation for a patient who has a terminal lung disease, and who will die without the transplant.

                A recent media request for confirmation from all provinces and territories regarding how many are being turned away revealed that Alberta does not track this information. Ontario reported 68 complaints had been received, but this also included complaints regarding a lack of in-person care generally.


                In a country where health officials closely monitor the public, it seems once again there is insufficient oversight of health officials. And apparently, at least according to a recent poll, the majority of Canadians agree with the refusal of service to belligerent unvaccinated persons. Not sure who thought that brilliant polling question up. News flash: emergency rooms on a Saturday night have plenty of drunken and belligerent vaccinated patients, all of whom receive treatment.

                The bigger point is medical ethics prohibits discrimination regarding the provision of health care. The Hippocratic Oath offers no defense to the bigoted doctor who refuses to treat a patient who has decided not to submit to one of the new mandatory Covid shots. The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms offers no defense to a doctor who, as a state actor in a supposedly “universal” system, discriminates against an unvaccinated patient. Doctors should not pick and choose who they treat on the basis of their identifiable characteristics, including their Covid vaccination status.

                It’s not only unconstitutional to turn away patients because of medical bigotry and elitism, it is also immoral.


                When are people going to wake up!
                Similar down under: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-12-...iting/13663656
                "So when you actually get the virus, you're going to start producing antibodies against multiple pieces of the virus. So, your antibodies are probably better at that point than the vaccination."
                - Pfizer Scientist Chris Croce

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post
                  Really? Where is the similarity? Patients will not be given transplants until they have been immunised against Covid (and the reason for that decision is stated). There is nothing in that report about refusing treatment for patients suffering other conditions.
                  1Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by tabibito View Post

                    Really? Where is the similarity? Patients will not be given transplants until they have been immunised against Covid (and the reason for that decision is stated). There is nothing in that report about refusing treatment for patients suffering other conditions.
                    Literally denying lifesaving operations, you really think more simple ones aren't next? I get that you have some sort of national pride fueling you, but at this point your country is nosediving into authoritarianism. Time to speak up and fight back, not cower and bend over.
                    "So when you actually get the virus, you're going to start producing antibodies against multiple pieces of the virus. So, your antibodies are probably better at that point than the vaccination."
                    - Pfizer Scientist Chris Croce

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by tabibito View Post

                      Really? Where is the similarity? Patients will not be given transplants until they have been immunised against Covid (and the reason for that decision is stated). There is nothing in that report about refusing treatment for patients suffering other conditions.
                      It has been shown that the vaccine has a negative effect on anti-rejection drugs. How long will the patient needing a transplant need to wait after the vaccine to get the surgery after being vaccinated? Are they supposed to wait months or years? How long after the surgery would the patient have to wait until the vaccine doesn't affect the anti-rejection drugs? Weeks? Months?

                      Hmmm?

                      None of it makes any sense. And if pure discrimination against those in need of health care. In Canada, you pay a whopping amount of taxes in order to get "free" health care, and no one, ever, should be denied treatment in this country.

                      I cannot speak to other countries, I only have experience with my own broken system.


                      Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post

                        Literally denying lifesaving operations, you really think more simple ones aren't next? I get that you have some sort of national pride fueling you, but at this point your country is nosediving into authoritarianism. Time to speak up and fight back, not cower and bend over.
                        No-one here is cowering. It is not a government decision. It is not even a national decision - just one state (at this stage). The relevant medical authorities in that state agree (majority consensus) that transplants for people in that state who have not been vaccinated are contraindicated. The prohibition at this stage is temporary, subject to review.
                        1Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by tabibito View Post

                          No-one here is cowering.
                          You literally have people in internment camps and at best have had a few thousand people out protesting. You're cowering.
                          It is not a government decision. It is not even a national decision - just one state (at this stage). The relevant medical authorities in that state agree (majority consensus) that transplants for people in that state who have not been vaccinated are contraindicated. The prohibition at this stage is temporary, subject to review.
                          Literally a government decision. If you're too shortsighted to see where it's going, well, I don't feel much sympathy for your future as the next authoritarian state.

                          "So when you actually get the virus, you're going to start producing antibodies against multiple pieces of the virus. So, your antibodies are probably better at that point than the vaccination."
                          - Pfizer Scientist Chris Croce

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post
                            You literally have people in internment camps
                            Nonsense. It profits to actually check facts rather than taking sensationalist reporting as reliable

                            and at best have had a few thousand people out protesting.
                            That might indicate that the "internment camp" claim is mightily over-exaggerated.

                            Literally a government decision.
                            More nonsense. Transplant Australia made the call, backing the decisions by transplant units i.e. not a government decision, but a decision made in accord with assessments made by medical personnel in the relevant disciplines, and in accord with triage considerations.

                            Your little diatribe is the equivalent of basing an assessment of America on the basis of what is happening in Colorado, which also has the same prohibitions on transplants.
                            Last edited by tabibito; 12-07-2021, 09:51 PM.
                            1Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by tabibito View Post

                              Nonsense. It profits to actually check facts rather than taking sensationalist reporting as reliable
                              I already checked my facts. You literally have internment camps where people are taken to (some against their will, others trusting their government foolishly),where people are arrested for escaping, etc.. That's an internment camp.

                              That might indicate that the "internment camp" claim is mightily over-exaggerated.
                              But it's not.

                              And all it indicates is that your people are cowering or complicit. The CHinese have over a billion people in their population and next to no one is out protesting their internment camps. Guess by your logic those internment camps are 'mightily over-exaggerated' in China, huh? Oh wait, nevermind you're Australian, you'd probably defend them anyway.

                              More nonsense. Transplant Australia made the call, backing the decisions by transplant units i.e. not a government decision, but a decision made in accord with assessments made by medical personnel in the relevant disciplines, and in accord with triage considerations.
                              And their money comes from the government. You really have a fantasy that the government and its policies aren't in control there? Mossrose has already pointed out the idiocy of the rationale being claimed.

                              Your little diatribe is the equivalent of basing an assessment of America on the basis of what is happening in Colorado, which also has the same prohibitions on transplants.
                              I agree. I'm very much against the insanity happening in the state I currently live in. The question is, why are you defending it and deflecting from it in your own country?
                              Last edited by Gondwanaland; 12-07-2021, 10:02 PM.
                              "So when you actually get the virus, you're going to start producing antibodies against multiple pieces of the virus. So, your antibodies are probably better at that point than the vaccination."
                              - Pfizer Scientist Chris Croce

                              Comment

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