Parents of Michigan School Shooter Charged With Involuntary Manslaughter

[Sparko]

In a land almost awash with guns, both legal and illegal, IMHO the sooner a minor can be properly and responsibly introduced to them, and the allure of guns demystified, the better. But for a parent to give a gun to an apparently mentally disturbed child simply beggars belief.

So do you all think the USA is like the wild wild west, with everyone carrying guns and having shootouts at high noon?

That only happens in Texas!

[rogue06]

I was making a generalization in which I included not dealing with issues that weren't personnel in nature. I agree that certain actions are more quickly responded to than they use to be. Unfortunately, in my area, a large church and a Bible camp are both in the news because they tolerated such behavior and that relatively recently. Unfortunately, issues may not be as well done with as we think.

Indeed. These sort of things will likely never completely vanish even if they have decreased.

[rogue06]

So do you all think the USA is like the wild wild west, with everyone carrying guns and having shootouts at high noon?

That only happens in Texas!

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Here's their Governor:
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[Markus River]

So do you all think the USA is like the wild wild west, with everyone carrying guns and having shootouts at high noon?

That only happens in Texas!

Not everyone, but with an estimated 120 civilian guns per 100 head of population, and nearly 400,000,000 of those guns unregistered, whilst you might not be able to actually swim in them, they'd probably get your feet wet. And the shoot outs don't seem to be limited to high noon.

Do you think it's a bad idea to demystify the dubious allure of guns to impressionable minors?

[Markus River]

I dunno.

I had to take a shower afterwards.

Did you manage to wash the guilt away?

[rogue06]

Did you manage to wash the guilt away?

It's worse than Indian ink mixed with skunk musk

[Sparko]

Not everyone, but with an estimated 120 civilian guns per 100 head of population, and nearly 400,000,000 of those guns unregistered, whilst you might not be able to actually swim in them, they'd probably get your feet wet. And the shoot outs don't seem to be limited to high noon.

Do you think it's a bad idea to demystify the dubious allure of guns to impressionable minors?

I think parents who have guns should start at an early age showing their children that guns are not toys, and never play with one, or even touch it without an adult present. And take them out and teach them to handle the guns. I grew up with a father who was in the Army and grew up in the country. He always had guns in the house when I was growing up. Heck we had shotguns hanging on racks in my brother's bedroom. My dad took me and my brother out hunting squirrels when I was around 8 years old (might have been younger, hard to remember exactly) and bought me and my brother a 410 shotgun (single shot, you had to open the gun put in a shell, close and shoot, then repeat). We never ever thought a gun was something to play with or mess with. We saw what it did to rabbits and squirrels.

I do think that if a parent has a child that they know is irresponsible or mentally ill, they should not buy them a gun or have guns accessible to them. That is common sense.

PS - Guns are not registered in the US unless they are automatics. You do have to have a license in most places to carry a handgun concealed, and you have to pass a background check to buy the gun, but the goobermint doesn't have a database of what guns you own or their serial numbers. The store you bought it from probably does.

[Gondwanaland]

Not everyone, but with an estimated 120 civilian guns per 100 head of population,

GASP!

and nearly 400,000,000 of those guns unregistered,

Oh no whatever shall we do?

[Sparko]

GASP!

Oh no whatever shall we do?

Buy more?

[Cow Poke]

Buy more?

On it!

[Gondwanaland]

Back more on topic......

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-b1971470.html

Oxford school shooting: Ethan Crumbley appointed lawyer by court after parents only hired their own

Michigan school shooting suspect Ethan Crumbley has been appointed an attorney by the court after his parents hired their own high-profile legal team but not a lawyer to represent their son on his murder and terrorism charges.

Paulette Michel Loftin, a little known defence attorney based out of Rochester, Detroit, was appointed by court officials on Thursday to represent the 15-year-old alleged mass shooter.

Ms Loftin told the Detroit Free Press she had been appointed at the request of the teenager because he could not afford to hire his own attorney.

Defendants are entitled to a court-appointed attorney, funded by the taxpayer, when they can prove they do not have the funds to pay for their defence themselves.

But, while the suspect’s parents Jennifer and James Crumbley appeared to choose not to foot their son’s legal bill, they took the step to hire two high-powered attorneys to represent themselves before they purportedly went on the run last week.

The Crumbleys had retained Shannon Smith and Mariell Lehman even before prosecutors charged them each with four charges of involuntary manslaughter in connection to last week’s deadly shooting.

Ms Smith has represented a number of high-profile clients in recent years including disgraced former USA Gymnastics team doctor and convicted sex offender Larry Nassar, who was accused of using his position of power to sexually abuse more than 250 victims over two decades.

He was sentenced to 60 years in federal prison on child porn charges and an additional 40 to 175 years in Michigan State prison for child sexual assault.

Ms Smith has also represented Jumana Nagarwala, who was charged with performing female genital mutilation in a landmark trial that was thrown out by a judge in September.

The Crumbleys’ decision not to pay for their son’s defence comes suggests they may be trying to distance themselves from any culpability for his alleged actions.

Criminal defence attorney Bill Swor told Detroit Free Press that the Crumbleys most likely can’t afford to pay for their son’s expensive murder trial, particularly given that they too are facing up to 15 years in prison if convicted.

“In some ways, the parents have got a harder case than the kid,” he said.

“They’re adults and he’s a child, and the father bought the gun. The mother made the (social media) postings, and public officials... made public statements that are very prejudicial.”

Oakland County Prosecutor Karen McDonald brought charges against the Crumbleys on Friday saying they had bought their son the firearm used in the shooting as a Christmas present and ignored multiple warning signs about the impending violence.

The couple then appeared to go on the run, failing to show for their arraignment that afternoon, sparking a huge manhunt.

Law enforcement officials tracked the couple down and arrested them early Saturday morning at an art studio in a warehouse in Detroit close to the Canadian border where they said the Crumbleys were “hiding”.

Their attorneys have repeatedly denied that the couple were trying to evade authorities, instead claiming it was a “matter of logistics” around when and how they would turn themselves in.

Authorities said charges may also be brought against artist Andrzej Sikora, who allegedly helped the couple hide inside his studio.

Mr Sikora has spoken out to claim he did not know the couple had been charged when he let them hide out in the commercial space.

Ethan has been charged as an adult with 24 charges including one count of terrorism and four counts of murder after he allegedly opened fire inside Oxford High School in Oxford, Michigan, on 30 November.

Four students - Tate Myre, 16, Hana St. Juliana, 14, Madisyn Baldwin, 17, and Justin Shilling, 17 - were all killed in the massacre while one teacher and six other students were wounded. Ethan was taken into custody at the scene.

Ms Loftin told the Free Press she had spoken with her client but would not be commenting on the charges until she receives information on the evidence in the case,

“There are thousands of pages of discovery that I will need to review so that we can make an informed decision about whether or not we wish to have the preliminary exam,” she said.

All three Crumbleys are now being held in Oakland County Jail where they are denied any contact with each other.

[Sparko]

Wow. Throwing their own son under the bus while taking care of themselves. Parents of the year.

[Markus River]

GASP!

Oh no whatever shall we do?

Do? Do whaetver you like, there you're kids not mine. Though the chances of my kid's running into radnom guns are somewhat less than yours.

[Gondwanaland]

Do? Do whaetver you like, there you're kids not mine. Though the chances of my kid's running into radnom guns are somewhat less than yours.

My kids were taught safe gun handling and from a young age, and are incredibly responsible with their use.

[Markus River]

My kids were taught safe gun handling and from a young age, and are incredibly responsible with their use.

Well good for them. Lets just hope though, that they never run into some depressed, grudge bearing, anti social classmate who's picked up his daddy's unsecured handgun and is itching to use it. That could make all their safe gun handling somewhat moot.

Perhaps you'd be advised to incorporate within their safe gun handling, a decent sprint start technique. It might prove more useful.