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Parents of Michigan School Shooter Charged With Involuntary Manslaughter

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post

    State laws don't get to override the bill of rights or the constitution, hun. Back to making over-generalized and simplistic statements again, eh?


    The Tenth Amendment's simple language—“The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people”—emphasizes that the inclusion of a bill of rights does not change the fundamental character of the national government.


    States are free to make and administer laws as they see fit as long as they do not violate the Constitution of the United States.
    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
      Given that it was kept in a drawer in the parent's room they have a case for the parent's keeping it until he is of legal age. Still it isn't uncommon for parents to be charged when a child gets an unsecured and especially loaded gun and accidentally shoots someone.

      I think a significant factor will end up being whether or not they also stored ammo with it or did the kid have to get some from another source (hence looking it up on the internet).
      That still sounds like negligence, which is not covered under State law. I think they'd have to show something like the parents' knowing he had the gun in his backpack.
      Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

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      Nationalist Christian.

      "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

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      • #48
        Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

        I am not entirely sure I understand your point. Certainly laws can be broken as we daily read in the papers. However, that laws are broken does not strike me as a sound reason for not having them in place.

        Michigan and other states have no such laws with regard to ensuring firearms are kept away from children; and I do not understand why.

        In Michigan I note that tampering with propane tanks is [rightly] illegal and work on propane systems may only be undertaken by qualified personnel from the industry yet this same state has no legislation regarding the secure storage of firearms.
        Don't ask me why? Go ask the Michigan state legislature why.

        I have noticed over the years that where society is on an issue that the law tends to lag behind.
        "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

        "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

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        • #49
          Michigan does have a Child Endangerment Law.

          I haven't read enough to know if this would be applicable here, but will read up on it when I get out of my next meeting.

          Just skimming it, though, it looks like it only affects danger or harm to the child, not any damage or harm he/she may cause.
          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
            Michigan does have a Child Endangerment Law.

            I haven't read enough to know if this would be applicable here, but will read up on it when I get out of my next meeting.

            Just skimming it, though, it looks like it only affects danger or harm to the child, not any damage or harm he/she may cause.
            If they charge him as an adult then they can't use such laws to indict the parents. Or any laws like Hypatia is talking about. Can't have it both ways.

            But I think they can charge the parents for giving a mentally ill person access to a gun and purchasing one for him.

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            • #51
              In a land almost awash with guns, both legal and illegal, IMHO the sooner a minor can be properly and responsibly introduced to them, and the allure of guns demystified, the better. But for a parent to give a gun to an apparently mentally disturbed child simply beggars belief.
              When inventing a god, it is imperative to claim that it's; invisible, inaudible and imperceptible in every way. Otherwise - when it appears to no one, is silent and does nothing - intelligent people are liable to become sceptical.
              - Anonymous

              When asked why Omniscient and Omnipotent God, chose to burn alive the children of two Middle Eastern cities, came the reply;
              “His hands were tied.” - DaveTheApologist

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              • #52
                Originally posted by Markus River View Post
                In a land almost awash with guns, both legal and illegal, IMHO the sooner a minor can be properly and responsibly introduced to them, and the allure of guns demystified, the better. But for a parent to give a gun to an apparently mentally disturbed child simply beggars belief.
                Thank you for posting something I can amen!
                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                  Thank you for posting something I can amen!
                  I think you missed out a "finally" there
                  When inventing a god, it is imperative to claim that it's; invisible, inaudible and imperceptible in every way. Otherwise - when it appears to no one, is silent and does nothing - intelligent people are liable to become sceptical.
                  - Anonymous

                  When asked why Omniscient and Omnipotent God, chose to burn alive the children of two Middle Eastern cities, came the reply;
                  “His hands were tied.” - DaveTheApologist

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Markus River View Post

                    I think you missed out a "finally" there
                    There may have been one or two others.
                    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      I keep see articles that the Michigan AG is considering charges against school personnel for their part. I'm glad she's looking cause from what I've read, the parents aren't the only ones that failed to act rightly that day.
                      "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

                      "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                        There may have been one or two others.
                        I dunno.

                        I had to take a shower afterwards.

                        I'm always still in trouble again

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View Post
                          I keep see articles that the Michigan AG is considering charges against school personnel for their part. I'm glad she's looking cause from what I've read, the parents aren't the only ones that failed to act rightly that day.
                          Yeah, I think the school officials messed up royally.

                          It wouldn't be the first time, because the public schools would FAR rather have a "no problem incident" record, than to actually deal with the problems.
                          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                            Yeah, I think the school officials messed up royally.

                            It wouldn't be the first time, because the public schools would FAR rather have a "no problem incident" record, than to actually deal with the problems.
                            Regretfully, not dealing with problems is the norm in organizations today. Sadly, it's all too common in the church as well.
                            "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

                            "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View Post
                              Regretfully, not dealing with problems is the norm in organizations today. Sadly, it's all too common in the church as well.
                              It depends on the problem. I'd say there is far less tolerance for an adult having a "dalliance" with a teenager in schools, churches, scouting, whatever, than there used to be. Unfortunately it took lawyers and lawsuits to see to that.

                              I'm always still in trouble again

                              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                              "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                                It depends on the problem. I'd say there is far less tolerance for an adult having a "dalliance" with a teenager in schools, churches, scouting, whatever, than there used to be. Unfortunately it took lawyers and lawsuits to see to that.
                                I was making a generalization in which I included not dealing with issues that weren't personnel in nature. I agree that certain actions are more quickly responded to than they use to be. Unfortunately, in my area, a large church and a Bible camp are both in the news because they tolerated such behavior and that relatively recently. Unfortunately, issues may not be as well done with as we think.
                                "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

                                "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

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