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Mississippi Abortion Ban

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  • Mississippi Abortion Ban

    It is looking good, but who knows...

    The Supreme Court seems poised to uphold Mississippi’s abortion law.

    The Supreme Court seemed poised on Wednesday to uphold a Mississippi law that bans abortions after 15 weeks of pregnancy, based on sometimes tense and heated questioning at a momentous argument in the most important abortion case in decades.

    Such a ruling would be flatly at odds with what the court has said was the central holding of Roe v. Wade, the 1973 decision that established a constitutional right to abortion and prohibited states from banning the procedure before fetal viability, or around 23 weeks.

    https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/12...-supreme-court
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

  • #2
    Yeah, just posted in "Predictions" --- that Turley seemed to think that maybe SCOTUS is looking at allowing this to be a STATES issue, as it is not related to powers delegated to the federal government.

    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
      Yeah, just posted in "Predictions" --- that Turley seemed to think that maybe SCOTUS is looking at allowing this to be a STATES issue, as it is not related to powers delegated to the federal government.
      As it should be, I like this law better than the Texas one though...
      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

      Comment


      • #4
        BREAKING: Justice Thomas wants to know on what the right to abortion is constitutionally based

        His arguments (or questions / challenges) were particularly on point and sharp!

        Justice Thomas was specifically interested in the question of what constitutional right the right to get an abortion is based on. He asked counsel, "If I know your interest here is in abortion. I understand that. But if I were to ask you what constitutional right protects the right to abortion? Is it privacy is it autonomy? What would it be?"

        "It's liberty, your Honor. It's the textual protection in the 14th Amendment that a state can't deprive a person of liberty without due process of law, and the Court has interpreted liberty to include the right to make family decisions and the right to physical autonomy including the right to end a pre-viability pregnancy," counsel answered.

        "So it's all of the above," Thomas asked. The two discussed cases for a moment, before Thomas went back to looking for an answer to his original question.

        "But what I'm trying to focus on, is if we, is to lower the level of generality, or at least be a little bit more specific. In the old days, we used to say it was a right to privacy that the court found in the due process, substantive due process clause. Okay. Or in substantive due process, and I'm trying to get you to tell me what are we relying on now? Is it privacy? Is it autonomy? What is it?" He asked.
        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
          BREAKING: Justice Thomas wants to know on what the right to abortion is constitutionally based

          His arguments (or questions / challenges) were particularly on point and sharp!

          Justice Thomas was specifically interested in the question of what constitutional right the right to get an abortion is based on. He asked counsel, "If I know your interest here is in abortion. I understand that. But if I were to ask you what constitutional right protects the right to abortion? Is it privacy is it autonomy? What would it be?"

          "It's liberty, your Honor. It's the textual protection in the 14th Amendment that a state can't deprive a person of liberty without due process of law, and the Court has interpreted liberty to include the right to make family decisions and the right to physical autonomy including the right to end a pre-viability pregnancy," counsel answered.

          "So it's all of the above," Thomas asked. The two discussed cases for a moment, before Thomas went back to looking for an answer to his original question.

          "But what I'm trying to focus on, is if we, is to lower the level of generality, or at least be a little bit more specific. In the old days, we used to say it was a right to privacy that the court found in the due process, substantive due process clause. Okay. Or in substantive due process, and I'm trying to get you to tell me what are we relying on now? Is it privacy? Is it autonomy? What is it?" He asked.
          IIRC, the usual response has been on the unwritten, implied right to privacy that was pretty much established by Griswold v. Connecticut (that's a National Lampoon Vacation movie I must of missed)

          I'm always still in trouble again

          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
          "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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          • #6
            What about the developing human's right to life?
            If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
              What about the developing human's right to life?
              That was actually brought up - don't remember by which make Justice....

              Asking about the "sliding scale" (my term) of viability of the unborn, and how that can change over time, or depending on what metric you're using, but the preference of the unborn itself NEVER changes. It was an excellent point.
              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

              Comment


              • #8
                sonagram.gif
                And ultrasound technology continues to advance.

                I'm always still in trouble again

                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                  sonagram.gif
                  And ultrasound technology continues to advance.
                  We just got new ultrasound machines at our pregnancy center. I haven't seen the output yet, but the nurses that operate the machines say it's astounding.
                  The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    One thing I've found interesting is that when one sees those trying to defend Roe v. Wade or Planned Parenthood v. Casey, and that the Supreme Court should neither overrule or adjust them, that (at least in popular discourse) one seems to never see actual arguments as to why those decisions were right, just a bunch of claims that abortion should be legal for policy reasons. That's very telling to me.

                    So last week SCOTUSBlog had a small "symposium" where they had several articles from people with different views on the current case before the Supreme Court. They often do this sort of thing for high-profile cases. Here are the four articles:
                    https://www.scotusblog.com/2021/11/m...ratic-process/
                    https://www.scotusblog.com/2021/11/a...al-foundation/
                    https://www.scotusblog.com/2021/11/o...e-on-the-line/
                    https://www.scotusblog.com/2021/11/d...abortion-bans/

                    The first two take the side of Mississippi (to uphold the law) and the latter two take the side of Whole Women's Health (to strike down the law). What I was struck by was what the arguments were. The two articles written to defend the law really don't give arguments as to why Roe v. Wade or Planned Parenthood v. Casey were correctly decided or to counter criticisms of those cases. Heck, the fourth one doesn't discuss legal considerations at all, it just tries to argue why abortion legalization is good policy. The third spends most of its time doing the same, and its only real reference to legal questions (which should be the point of it, not a tangent...) essentially just repeats a a few claims made in Casey, as if there haven't been plenty of criticisms, including by some who are in favor of abortion legalization, as to why the claims made in those decisions are in error. And, hey, I get that if you want to defend a decision, using its arguments makes some sense, but you should instead provide counter-arguments if you have them rather than immediately jumping back into policy arguments rather than legal ones.

                    Now, the ones that take the anti-Roe/anti-Casey position aren't exactly without some of their own cases of trying to appeal to policy judgments, but they focus much more on what's the actual important question: Does the Constitution actually create a right to an abortion? And they offer arguments for why not, and also offer counter-arguments to the arguments it does.

                    I know my judging process here is based on just four articles, and these articles aren't super-long so one would expect things to be concise. But it's reflective of what i see elsewhere. Furthermore, SCOTUSBlog is a popular Supreme Court news site and so one would think that for a symposium like this, those who support/oppose Roe and similar cases would be sending out their best and would be focusing on the legal questions of the case, not simply whether abortion criminalization is good or not which is not the actual important question here.

                    It was just very striking to me to note this considerable difference in the focus of those articles. The ones saying that Roe v. Wade was wrong present legal arguments and counter-arguments, whereas the ones that are trying to uphold it ignore the legal questions almost entirely and just appeal to the question of policy, which is what the Supreme Court is supposed to not be deciding cases by.
                    Last edited by Terraceth; 12-04-2021, 01:17 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Anyone else notice how the MSM, after savaging Trump for attacking the foundations of our government, is now increasingly smearing the SCOTUS and trying to delegitimize them? It seems that the left is pretty sure that Roe is about to be scaled back.

                      I'm always still in trouble again

                      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                      Comment

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