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  • #31
    Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
    Well yes I did mean a mild reaction. However, the literature that is available does not indicate that once having contracted a mild reaction to the disease that the individual will be immune to subsequent mutations.
    But what is your response when BtC provides studies that contradict this:
    Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
    Well, it seems to be the case for most of the variants, so what's the problem? Every study I've seen says that recovering from even a mild case provides robust and long lasting immune response. Here's a few.

    Good news: Mild COVID-19 induces lasting antibody protection – Washington University School of Medicine in St. Louis (wustl.edu)
    SARS-CoV-2 infection induces long-lived bone marrow plasma cells in humans | Nature

    What is your response to "the literature that is available" now?

    Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
    It is far too early to make such long-term claims.


    Now. Tbh, I don't know who is right here. But I couldn't help but notice the, shall we say, less than consistent treatment.


    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
    "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by rogue06 View Post

      But what is your response when BtC provides studies that contradict this:
      What is your response to "the literature that is available" now?
      As my own link illustrated there now appears to be evidence that a mild infection followed by later vaccination may increase [note the qualification] to the protection from vaccination.

      "Johns Hopkins has conducted a large study on natural immunity that shows antibody levels against COVID-19 coronavirus stay higher for a longer time in people who were infected by the virus and then were fully vaccinated with mRNA COVID-19 vaccines compared with those who only got immunized. (The results of the study were published in a letter to the Journal of the American Medical Association on Nov. 1, 2021.)

      The data show that one month after they got their second shot, participants who had had COVID-19 more than 90 days before their first shot had adjusted antibody levels higher than those who had been exposed to the coronavirus more recently than 90 days. Three months after the second coronavirus vaccine, the antibody levels were even higher: 13% higher than those who were exposed to the virus less than or equal to the 90-day mark.

      These study results suggest that natural immunity may increase the protection of the shots when there is a longer time period between having COVID-19 and getting vaccinated."


      This virus also affects people in different ways, some only experience minor symptoms, others die. There is now a suggestion that genetics may also play a part.

      The short answer is that at the present time the scientific and medical communities cannot, with any degree of certainty, maintain that those who have contracted this disease in a mild form will [as some individuals claim] have total immunity from all variants of this disease for the foreseeable future.


      "It ain't necessarily so
      The things that you're liable
      To read in the Bible
      It ain't necessarily so
      ."

      Sportin' Life
      Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

        As my own link illustrated there now appears to be evidence that a mild infection followed by later vaccination may increase [note the qualification] to the protection from vaccination.

        "Johns Hopkins has conducted a large study on natural immunity that shows antibody levels against COVID-19 coronavirus stay higher for a longer time in people who were infected by the virus and then were fully vaccinated with mRNA COVID-19 vaccines compared with those who only got immunized. (The results of the study were published in a letter to the Journal of the American Medical Association on Nov. 1, 2021.)

        The data show that one month after they got their second shot, participants who had had COVID-19 more than 90 days before their first shot had adjusted antibody levels higher than those who had been exposed to the coronavirus more recently than 90 days. Three months after the second coronavirus vaccine, the antibody levels were even higher: 13% higher than those who were exposed to the virus less than or equal to the 90-day mark.

        These study results suggest that natural immunity may increase the protection of the shots when there is a longer time period between having COVID-19 and getting vaccinated."


        This virus also affects people in different ways, some only experience minor symptoms, others die. There is now a suggestion that genetics may also play a part.

        The short answer is that at the present time the scientific and medical communities cannot, with any degree of certainty, maintain that those who have contracted this disease in a mild form will [as some individuals claim] have total immunity from all variants of this disease for the foreseeable future.
        I'm not sure anyone claimed to have total immunity. We don't get that even with both shots and the booster.

        I'm always still in trouble again

        "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
        "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
        "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

          Well yes I did mean a mild reaction. However, the literature that is available does not indicate that once having contracted a mild reaction to the disease that the individual will be immune to subsequent mutations.

          Published on November 23rd

          https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/heal...u-need-to-know

          What is natural immunity?


          Natural immunity is the antibody protection your body creates against a germ once you’ve been infected with it. Natural immunity varies according to the person and the germ. For example, people who have had the measles are not likely to get it again, but this is not the case for every disease. A mild case of an illness may not result in strong natural immunity. New studies show that natural immunity to the coronavirus weakens (wanes) over time, and does so faster than immunity provided by COVID-19 vaccination.
          What is vaccine-induced immunity for COVID-19?


          Vaccine-induced immunity is what we get by being fully vaccinated with an approved or authorized COVID-19 vaccine. Research indicates that the protection from the vaccines may wane over time so additional doses (boosters) are now authorized for certain populations. These boosters can extend the powerful protection offered by the COVID-19 vaccines.
          If I have natural immunity do I still need a COVID vaccine?


          Yes, the COVID-19 vaccines are recommended, even if you had COVID-19. At present, evidence from Johns Hopkins Medicine and the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) supports getting a COVID-19 vaccine as the best protection against getting COVID-19, whether you have already had the virus or not.

          Here are recent research studies that support getting vaccinated even if you have already had COVID-19:

          Vaccines add protection.
          • The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) released a report on Oct. 29, 2021, that says getting vaccinated for the coronavirus when you’ve already had COVID-19 significantly enhances your immune protection and further reduces your risk of reinfection.
          • A study published in August 2021 indicates that if you had COVID-19 before and are not vaccinated, your risk of getting re-infected is more than two times higher than for those who got vaccinated after having COVID-19.
          • Another study published on Nov. 5, 2021, by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) looked at adults hospitalized for COVID-like sickness between January and September 2021. This study found that the chances of these adults testing positive for COVID-19 were 5.49 times higher in unvaccinated people who had COVID-19 in the past than they were for those who had been vaccinated for COVID and had not had an infection before.
          • A study from the CDC in September 2021 showed that roughly one-third of those with COVID-19 cases in the study had no apparent natural immunity.

          Immunity varies for individuals: Immune response can differ in people who get COVID-19 and recover from the illness. The FDA-authorized and approved vaccines have been given to almost 200 million people in the U.S. alone, and have strong data supporting their effectiveness.

          Delta variant and future coronavirus variants: Hospitalizations of people with severe COVID-19 soared over the late summer and into fall as the delta variant moved across the country. People infected with earlier versions of the coronavirus and who haven’t been vaccinated might be more vulnerable to new mutations of the coronavirus such as those found in the delta variant. To date, the authorized vaccines provide protection from serious disease or death due to all currently circulating coronavirus variants.
          Should I hold off getting a COVID vaccine to see if there is new research on natural immunity?


          Holding off on getting vaccinated for COVID-19 is not a good idea. Here’s why:
          1. Getting COVID-19 is very risky and can result in long-term disease, lasting organ damage, hospitalization or even death.
          2. Even if your own infection is mild, you can spread it to others who may have severe illness and death.
          3. The authorized and approved vaccines are safe and highly effective against severe illness or death due to COVID.
          4. Risks of COVID-19 vaccine side effects are extremely low.

          For the reasons above, the CDC recommends and Johns Hopkins Medicine agrees that all eligible people get vaccinated with any of the three FDA-approved or authorized COVID-19 vaccines, including those who have already had COVID-19.
          Johns Hopkins Research on Natural Immunity for COVID-19 and COVID Vaccines


          Johns Hopkins has conducted a large study on natural immunity that shows antibody levels against COVID-19 coronavirus stay higher for a longer time in people who were infected by the virus and then were fully vaccinated with mRNA COVID-19 vaccines compared with those who only got immunized. (The results of the study were published in a letter to the Journal of the American Medical Association on Nov. 1, 2021.)

          The data show that one month after they got their second shot, participants who had had COVID-19 more than 90 days before their first shot had adjusted antibody levels higher than those who had been exposed to the coronavirus more recently than 90 days. Three months after the second coronavirus vaccine, the antibody levels were even higher: 13% higher than those who were exposed to the virus less than or equal to the 90-day mark.

          These study results suggest that natural immunity may increase the protection of the shots when there is a longer time period between having COVID-19 and getting vaccinated.

          Did you ever consider that they had a mild reaction because their immune system worked so well in the first place? Otherwise they would have gotten much sicker.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by Sparko View Post

            Did you ever consider that they had a mild reaction because their immune system worked so well in the first place? Otherwise they would have gotten much sicker.
            My bout with COVID in January lasted for 30 minutes - slight headache and slight fever - then it was all over. But tested positive the following day, and the next 7 days.

            Wife's bout with COVID was even less than that, also tested positive the following day.
            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

              My bout with COVID in January lasted for 30 minutes - slight headache and slight fever - then it was all over. But tested positive the following day, and the next 7 days.

              Wife's bout with COVID was even less than that, also tested positive the following day.
              My point was that the weaker a person's immune response is, the sicker they will get and the longer it will take to recover. So someone who only gets a mild case and quick recovery would mean they had a strong immune response that killed off the virus before it could do any damage.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Sparko View Post

                My point was that the weaker a person's immune response is, the sicker they will get and the longer it will take to recover. So someone who only gets a mild case and quick recovery would mean they had a strong immune response that killed off the virus before it could do any damage.
                Agreed! And we had been trying to figure out why we breezed through it. Initially there was some buzz about people who have O+ blood, and that's US! Then some study denounced that.

                But what you're saying just makes sense!

                Now, I WILL say that we had been taking Vitamins C & D, Zinc and (magnesium or potassium, I don't remember) and maybe THAT helped us "breeze through it".
                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                  My bout with COVID in January lasted for 30 minutes - slight headache and slight fever - then it was all over. But tested positive the following day, and the next 7 days.

                  Wife's bout with COVID was even less than that, also tested positive the following day.
                  That's better than my case. I had a slight cough for maybe 3 weeks, fever lasted on-and-off for 1 week, lost taste/smell/appetite at the beginning for 2-3 days.

                  My 35-year-old daughter lost taste and smell for one day and was totally recovered the following day. I suspect most people under 40 never have any symptoms.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Sparko View Post

                    My point was that the weaker a person's immune response is, the sicker they will get and the longer it will take to recover. So someone who only gets a mild case and quick recovery would mean they had a strong immune response that killed off the virus before it could do any damage.
                    And now you're an epidemiologist and a pathologist?

                    "It ain't necessarily so
                    The things that you're liable
                    To read in the Bible
                    It ain't necessarily so
                    ."

                    Sportin' Life
                    Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Ronson View Post

                      That's better than my case. I had a slight cough for maybe 3 weeks, fever lasted on-and-off for 1 week, lost taste/smell/appetite at the beginning for 2-3 days.

                      My 35-year-old daughter lost taste and smell for one day and was totally recovered the following day. I suspect most people under 40 never have any symptoms.
                      Except that some very fit and healthy people - die.


                      https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-dies-of-covid
                      A “fit and healthy” 42-year-old who loved climbing mountains and lifting weights has died of Covid-19 after refusing to get vaccinated, leaving his twin sister and mother heartbroken.

                      The two women warned others not to think they are invulnerable to the dangers of the virus.



                      The father of one, John Eyers, a construction expert from Southport in Merseyside, was described by his sister Jenny McCann as “the fittest, healthiest person I know”.

                      She added that her brother had been climbing Welsh mountains and camping in the wild four weeks before his death.

                      But he was left in intensive care after catching coronavirus, and told his consultant before he was ventilated that he wished he had been vaccinated. His twin said his death was “a tragedy”.

                      “He thought if he contracted Covid-19 he would be OK. He thought he would have a mild illness. He didn’t want to put a vaccine in his body. His was pumped full of every drug in the hospital. They threw everything at him,” McCann said on Twitter.

                      "It ain't necessarily so
                      The things that you're liable
                      To read in the Bible
                      It ain't necessarily so
                      ."

                      Sportin' Life
                      Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                        And now you're an epidemiologist and a pathologist?
                        Have you recently become a Christian?
                        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                          Have you recently become a Christian?
                          Have you stopped beating your wife?
                          "It ain't necessarily so
                          The things that you're liable
                          To read in the Bible
                          It ain't necessarily so
                          ."

                          Sportin' Life
                          Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                            Have you stopped beating your wife?
                            Sadly, I have - but only because she refuses to play Scrabble with me anymore.

                            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                              Except that some very fit and healthy people - die.


                              https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-dies-of-covid
                              A “fit and healthy” 42-year-old who loved climbing mountains and lifting weights has died of Covid-19 after refusing to get vaccinated, leaving his twin sister and mother heartbroken.

                              The two women warned others not to think they are invulnerable to the dangers of the virus.



                              The father of one, John Eyers, a construction expert from Southport in Merseyside, was described by his sister Jenny McCann as “the fittest, healthiest person I know”.

                              She added that her brother had been climbing Welsh mountains and camping in the wild four weeks before his death.

                              But he was left in intensive care after catching coronavirus, and told his consultant before he was ventilated that he wished he had been vaccinated. His twin said his death was “a tragedy”.

                              “He thought if he contracted Covid-19 he would be OK. He thought he would have a mild illness. He didn’t want to put a vaccine in his body. His was pumped full of every drug in the hospital. They threw everything at him,” McCann said on Twitter.
                              And some very fit and healthy people are killed by lightning. And some people who have been vaccinated - die.

                              Need to focus on the rule and not the exceptions

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                                Except that some very fit and healthy people - die.


                                https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-dies-of-covid
                                A “fit and healthy” 42-year-old who loved climbing mountains and lifting weights has died of Covid-19 after refusing to get vaccinated, leaving his twin sister and mother heartbroken.

                                The two women warned others not to think they are invulnerable to the dangers of the virus.



                                The father of one, John Eyers, a construction expert from Southport in Merseyside, was described by his sister Jenny McCann as “the fittest, healthiest person I know”.

                                She added that her brother had been climbing Welsh mountains and camping in the wild four weeks before his death.

                                But he was left in intensive care after catching coronavirus, and told his consultant before he was ventilated that he wished he had been vaccinated. His twin said his death was “a tragedy”.

                                “He thought if he contracted Covid-19 he would be OK. He thought he would have a mild illness. He didn’t want to put a vaccine in his body. His was pumped full of every drug in the hospital. They threw everything at him,” McCann said on Twitter.
                                Yup. I remember when the famous runner Jim Fixx, author of The Art of Running, dropped dead of a heart attack while only 52 years old.

                                It seems that some of those fit and very health people might not be as fit and healthy as thought.

                                I'm always still in trouble again

                                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                                "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                                Comment

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