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Fun and Games in the USA

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  • Fun and Games in the USA


    The cynic in me cannot help but wonder if some Republicans consider the offering of a higher unemployment benefit to be merely a ploy to boost their own popularity .

    Perchance the costs will be gradually reduced as those unvaccinated individuals become ill and/or possibly die.


    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...yment-benefits
    Republicans boost benefits for workers who quit over vaccine mandates

    Some Republican states are expanding unemployment benefits for employees who have been fired or quit over vaccine mandates, a move critics say in effect pays people for not getting vaccinated.

    Four states – Iowa, Tennessee, Florida, and Kansas – have changed their rules on unemployment to include people who have been terminated or who have chosen to leave their jobs because of their employers’ vaccine policies.

    The partisan divide is striking, Anne Paxton, staff attorney and policy director for the Unemployment Law Project in Washington state, told the Guardian. “It’s very hard to regard this particular move as being based on anything much more than political reasons.”

    The development also comes as the new Omicron variant has emerged, triggering concern that the strain could already be inside the US. If so, it would likely see a new spike in infections in America.

    There are 30 states with Republican-led legislatures that could follow suit. “I would be very surprised if it stopped at this four,” Paxton said. Missouri is contemplating similar laws, while states like Maryland are considering “mitigating factors” around unemployment and vaccine rules.

    Some Democrat states, on the other hand, have said that leaving a job because of mandates will disqualify former employees from these benefits unless they have demonstrated exemptions.

    “Partisanship continues to be a sharp dividing line in vaccine attitudes,” the Kaiser Family Foundation reported in October, with 90% of Democrats and 61% of Republicans saying they have gotten at least one dose.

    Only 5% of unvaccinated workers said they have left a job over mandates, and unemployment is dropping swiftly across the country.

    Unemployment benefits are not equivalent to full-time wages, Dorit Reiss, professor of law at UC Hastings College of the Law, pointed out. But rules like these may form an incentive against vaccination.

    “It’s like offering a financial benefit for not vaccinating,” Reiss told the Guardian. “If the person would not get unemployment benefits if they refused to wash their hands at work and were fired over that, they should be treated the same way.”

    Unemployment law in the United States is governed partly by federal law, but states have latitude to set their own requirements or restrictions, Paxton said.

    Typically, when employees are fired or they quit because of a business’s policies they aren’t eligible for unemployment benefits, unless they have an exemption for established religious or moral objections, or medical reasons.

    “Benefits are for people who are unemployed through no fault of their own,” Paxton said. But the interpretation of fault can vary.

    And in recent weeks, the Republican leaders of these states have signed bills protecting benefits around vaccination mandates, essentially liberalizing unemployment rules around vaccines in conservative states.

    If states want to change the rules around unemployment benefits for those who clash with employers’ policies, they should change the rules for everyone, Reiss said.

    “They should pass a law that’s broader that says, ‘Anyone who’s fired for cause gets unemployment benefits anyway.’ And that’s fine. That’s a value judgment, and states can make it,” Reiss said. But “limiting it to vaccines alone, it’s sending a message that vaccines are not important, and that’s a bad message.”

    There were already marked differences along partisan lines in how states handle unemployment benefits.

    “The blue states tend to be more generous in their eligibility rules,” Paxton said. “They tend to have higher benefits. And the red states have a tendency to be on the stingy side.”

    In Florida, for instance, the maximum benefit is set at $275 a week, which is lower than the weekly minimum in Washington.

    Many Republican-led states also opted to end federal unemployment assistance earlier this year.

    “They were not trying to help people who were jobless in that respect,” Paxton said. “So it’s hard to take this very seriously as a substantive, well-thought-out policy move in these four states.” Instead, she said, the decision seems to be less about unemployment policy and more about political tools “to aggravate the partisan divide,” Paxton said.

    Nine states have introduced restrictions on the Biden administration’s vaccine mandate for businesses with more than 100 employees and for federal agencies and contractors.

    Tennessee and Montana have banned private employers from mandating the vaccines, and seven other states have introduced wide-ranging restrictions on mandates, according to the National Academy for State Health Policy. After Florida restricted the rules, for instance, Disney World halted its employee vaccination requirements.

    When it comes to ending the pandemic, Reiss said, working around mandates like these is “going to make it substantially harder”.


    "It ain't necessarily so
    The things that you're liable
    To read in the Bible
    It ain't necessarily so
    ."

    Sportin' Life
    Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

  • #2
    Boost the benefits? No.

    Get the benefits that they are entitled to that some of those on the left want to deny them? Yes.


    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
    "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
      The cynic in me cannot help but wonder if some Republicans consider the offering of a higher unemployment benefit to be merely a ploy to boost their own popularity .

      Perchance the costs will be gradually reduced as those unvaccinated individuals become ill and/or possibly die.


      https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...yment-benefits
      Republicans boost benefits for workers who quit over vaccine mandates

      Some Republican states are expanding unemployment benefits for employees who have been fired or quit over vaccine mandates, a move critics say in effect pays people for not getting vaccinated.

      Four states – Iowa, Tennessee, Florida, and Kansas – have changed their rules on unemployment to include people who have been terminated or who have chosen to leave their jobs because of their employers’ vaccine policies.

      The partisan divide is striking, Anne Paxton, staff attorney and policy director for the Unemployment Law Project in Washington state, told the Guardian. “It’s very hard to regard this particular move as being based on anything much more than political reasons.”

      The development also comes as the new Omicron variant has emerged, triggering concern that the strain could already be inside the US. If so, it would likely see a new spike in infections in America.

      There are 30 states with Republican-led legislatures that could follow suit. “I would be very surprised if it stopped at this four,” Paxton said. Missouri is contemplating similar laws, while states like Maryland are considering “mitigating factors” around unemployment and vaccine rules.

      Some Democrat states, on the other hand, have said that leaving a job because of mandates will disqualify former employees from these benefits unless they have demonstrated exemptions.

      “Partisanship continues to be a sharp dividing line in vaccine attitudes,” the Kaiser Family Foundation reported in October, with 90% of Democrats and 61% of Republicans saying they have gotten at least one dose.

      Only 5% of unvaccinated workers said they have left a job over mandates, and unemployment is dropping swiftly across the country.

      Unemployment benefits are not equivalent to full-time wages, Dorit Reiss, professor of law at UC Hastings College of the Law, pointed out. But rules like these may form an incentive against vaccination.

      “It’s like offering a financial benefit for not vaccinating,” Reiss told the Guardian. “If the person would not get unemployment benefits if they refused to wash their hands at work and were fired over that, they should be treated the same way.”

      Unemployment law in the United States is governed partly by federal law, but states have latitude to set their own requirements or restrictions, Paxton said.

      Typically, when employees are fired or they quit because of a business’s policies they aren’t eligible for unemployment benefits, unless they have an exemption for established religious or moral objections, or medical reasons.

      “Benefits are for people who are unemployed through no fault of their own,” Paxton said. But the interpretation of fault can vary.

      And in recent weeks, the Republican leaders of these states have signed bills protecting benefits around vaccination mandates, essentially liberalizing unemployment rules around vaccines in conservative states.

      If states want to change the rules around unemployment benefits for those who clash with employers’ policies, they should change the rules for everyone, Reiss said.

      “They should pass a law that’s broader that says, ‘Anyone who’s fired for cause gets unemployment benefits anyway.’ And that’s fine. That’s a value judgment, and states can make it,” Reiss said. But “limiting it to vaccines alone, it’s sending a message that vaccines are not important, and that’s a bad message.”

      There were already marked differences along partisan lines in how states handle unemployment benefits.

      “The blue states tend to be more generous in their eligibility rules,” Paxton said. “They tend to have higher benefits. And the red states have a tendency to be on the stingy side.”

      In Florida, for instance, the maximum benefit is set at $275 a week, which is lower than the weekly minimum in Washington.

      Many Republican-led states also opted to end federal unemployment assistance earlier this year.

      “They were not trying to help people who were jobless in that respect,” Paxton said. “So it’s hard to take this very seriously as a substantive, well-thought-out policy move in these four states.” Instead, she said, the decision seems to be less about unemployment policy and more about political tools “to aggravate the partisan divide,” Paxton said.

      Nine states have introduced restrictions on the Biden administration’s vaccine mandate for businesses with more than 100 employees and for federal agencies and contractors.

      Tennessee and Montana have banned private employers from mandating the vaccines, and seven other states have introduced wide-ranging restrictions on mandates, according to the National Academy for State Health Policy. After Florida restricted the rules, for instance, Disney World halted its employee vaccination requirements.

      When it comes to ending the pandemic, Reiss said, working around mandates like these is “going to make it substantially harder”.

      What "higher" unemployment benefits?

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
        Boost the benefits? No.

        Get the benefits that they are entitled to that some of those on the left want to deny them? Yes.
        Come now, do you not see a political aspect to this?
        "It ain't necessarily so
        The things that you're liable
        To read in the Bible
        It ain't necessarily so
        ."

        Sportin' Life
        Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
          Come now, do you not see a political aspect to this?
          In leftist politicians seeking to deny unemployment benefits to those who refuse to disclose personal medical information that is illegal to require? Probably.

          I'm always still in trouble again

          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
          "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
            In leftist politicians seeking to deny unemployment benefits to those who refuse to disclose personal medical information that is illegal to require? Probably.
            This is, perhaps, the key comment in that link.

            "Typically, when employees are fired or they quit because of a business’s policies they aren’t eligible for unemployment benefits, unless they have an exemption for established religious or moral objections, or medical reasons.

            “Benefits are for people who are unemployed through no fault of their own,” Paxton said. But the interpretation of fault can vary
            ."

            Clearly refusing to have a vaccination is, for most people, neither an established religious nor a moral objection. Nor, from what I can deduce, is there any valid medical reason for refusing these vaccinations.

            As noted in that quote benefits are paid to individuals who become unemployed through no fault of their own. Refusing a vaccination is a personal choice, therefore, being made redundant is a result of that personal choice.

            However, as the quote also notes the interpretation of what constitutes personal fault can vary.

            A further comment is also valid "If the person would not get unemployment benefits if they refused to wash their hands at work and were fired over that, they should be treated the same way.”

            Should people who refuse to wash their hands receive unemployment benefit?
            "It ain't necessarily so
            The things that you're liable
            To read in the Bible
            It ain't necessarily so
            ."

            Sportin' Life
            Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

            Comment


            • #7
              Being fired because you refused to provide private information is not the employees fault. The employer cannot demand it. It is protected information.

              I'm always still in trouble again

              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
              "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                Being fired because you refused to provide private information is not the employees fault. The employer cannot demand it. It is protected information.
                You did not address my points,
                "It ain't necessarily so
                The things that you're liable
                To read in the Bible
                It ain't necessarily so
                ."

                Sportin' Life
                Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                  You did not address my points,
                  Because they are irrelevant. They were fired through no fault of their own.

                  I'm always still in trouble again

                  "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                  "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                  "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Hypatia,

                    When you become a citizen of the USA, then you may comment on our politics.


                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                      The cynic in me cannot help but wonder if some Republicans consider the offering of a higher unemployment benefit to be merely a ploy to boost their own popularity .

                      Perchance the costs will be gradually reduced as those unvaccinated individuals become ill and/or possibly die.


                      https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...yment-benefits
                      Republicans boost benefits for workers who quit over vaccine mandates

                      Some Republican states are expanding unemployment benefits for employees who have been fired or quit over vaccine mandates, a move critics say in effect pays people for not getting vaccinated.

                      Four states – Iowa, Tennessee, Florida, and Kansas – have changed their rules on unemployment to include people who have been terminated or who have chosen to leave their jobs because of their employers’ vaccine policies.

                      The partisan divide is striking, Anne Paxton, staff attorney and policy director for the Unemployment Law Project in Washington state, told the Guardian. “It’s very hard to regard this particular move as being based on anything much more than political reasons.”

                      The development also comes as the new Omicron variant has emerged, triggering concern that the strain could already be inside the US. If so, it would likely see a new spike in infections in America.

                      There are 30 states with Republican-led legislatures that could follow suit. “I would be very surprised if it stopped at this four,” Paxton said. Missouri is contemplating similar laws, while states like Maryland are considering “mitigating factors” around unemployment and vaccine rules.

                      Some Democrat states, on the other hand, have said that leaving a job because of mandates will disqualify former employees from these benefits unless they have demonstrated exemptions.

                      “Partisanship continues to be a sharp dividing line in vaccine attitudes,” the Kaiser Family Foundation reported in October, with 90% of Democrats and 61% of Republicans saying they have gotten at least one dose.

                      Only 5% of unvaccinated workers said they have left a job over mandates, and unemployment is dropping swiftly across the country.

                      Unemployment benefits are not equivalent to full-time wages, Dorit Reiss, professor of law at UC Hastings College of the Law, pointed out. But rules like these may form an incentive against vaccination.

                      “It’s like offering a financial benefit for not vaccinating,” Reiss told the Guardian. “If the person would not get unemployment benefits if they refused to wash their hands at work and were fired over that, they should be treated the same way.”

                      Unemployment law in the United States is governed partly by federal law, but states have latitude to set their own requirements or restrictions, Paxton said.

                      Typically, when employees are fired or they quit because of a business’s policies they aren’t eligible for unemployment benefits, unless they have an exemption for established religious or moral objections, or medical reasons.

                      “Benefits are for people who are unemployed through no fault of their own,” Paxton said. But the interpretation of fault can vary.

                      And in recent weeks, the Republican leaders of these states have signed bills protecting benefits around vaccination mandates, essentially liberalizing unemployment rules around vaccines in conservative states.

                      If states want to change the rules around unemployment benefits for those who clash with employers’ policies, they should change the rules for everyone, Reiss said.

                      “They should pass a law that’s broader that says, ‘Anyone who’s fired for cause gets unemployment benefits anyway.’ And that’s fine. That’s a value judgment, and states can make it,” Reiss said. But “limiting it to vaccines alone, it’s sending a message that vaccines are not important, and that’s a bad message.”

                      There were already marked differences along partisan lines in how states handle unemployment benefits.

                      “The blue states tend to be more generous in their eligibility rules,” Paxton said. “They tend to have higher benefits. And the red states have a tendency to be on the stingy side.”

                      In Florida, for instance, the maximum benefit is set at $275 a week, which is lower than the weekly minimum in Washington.

                      Many Republican-led states also opted to end federal unemployment assistance earlier this year.

                      “They were not trying to help people who were jobless in that respect,” Paxton said. “So it’s hard to take this very seriously as a substantive, well-thought-out policy move in these four states.” Instead, she said, the decision seems to be less about unemployment policy and more about political tools “to aggravate the partisan divide,” Paxton said.

                      Nine states have introduced restrictions on the Biden administration’s vaccine mandate for businesses with more than 100 employees and for federal agencies and contractors.

                      Tennessee and Montana have banned private employers from mandating the vaccines, and seven other states have introduced wide-ranging restrictions on mandates, according to the National Academy for State Health Policy. After Florida restricted the rules, for instance, Disney World halted its employee vaccination requirements.

                      When it comes to ending the pandemic, Reiss said, working around mandates like these is “going to make it substantially harder”.

                      Your source does not seem to support your claim nor the one it makes in its title.
                      "So when you actually get the virus, you're going to start producing antibodies against multiple pieces of the virus. So, your antibodies are probably better at that point than the vaccination."
                      - Pfizer Scientist Chris Croce

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                        This is, perhaps, the key comment in that link.

                        "Typically, when employees are fired or they quit because of a business’s policies they aren’t eligible for unemployment benefits, unless they have an exemption for established religious or moral objections, or medical reasons.


                        Or if the business' policy is found to be illegal.


                        “Benefits are for people who are unemployed through no fault of their own,” Paxton said. But the interpretation of fault can vary
                        ."

                        Clearly refusing to have a vaccination is, for most people, neither an established religious nor a moral objection. Nor, from what I can deduce, is there any valid medical reason for refusing these vaccinations.
                        Natural immunity is sufficient.


                        As noted in that quote benefits are paid to individuals who become unemployed through no fault of their own. Refusing a vaccination is a personal choice, therefore, being made redundant is a result of that personal choice.
                        No one is being made "redundant" by refusing the vaccine. Redundant means there is someone else already doing your job too.

                        However, as the quote also notes the interpretation of what constitutes personal fault can vary.

                        A further comment is also valid "If the person would not get unemployment benefits if they refused to wash their hands at work and were fired over that, they should be treated the same way.”

                        Should people who refuse to wash their hands receive unemployment benefit?
                        Depends on the field of work. And the requirement. If an accountant company required you to wash your hands every 15 minutes, and fired you for non-compliance, you'd have a strong case for benefits.
                        That's what
                        - She

                        Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                        - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                        I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                        Stephen R. Donaldson

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                          Come now, do you not see a political aspect to this?
                          I think that's the exact point the Republicans are making. Thanks for playing.
                          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                            Because they are irrelevant. They were fired through no fault of their own.
                            Should people who are fired for refusing to wash their hands receive unemployment benefit?
                            "It ain't necessarily so
                            The things that you're liable
                            To read in the Bible
                            It ain't necessarily so
                            ."

                            Sportin' Life
                            Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post

                              Natural immunity is sufficient.
                              [sarcasm intended That must explain why so many are dying around the world].




                              "It ain't necessarily so
                              The things that you're liable
                              To read in the Bible
                              It ain't necessarily so
                              ."

                              Sportin' Life
                              Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                              Comment

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