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  • Originally posted by EvoUK View Post

    You've gone through this before. We get it, you'd prefer morality to be objective (and it just so happens to line up with your own subjective morals, which is adorable), but you preferring morality to be objective doesn't mean that it is. Your argument is merely 'I think the idea of subjective morality sucks, so therefore it can't be true'.
    It has nothing to do with preference. It's a simple fact that if morality is subjective, then anything goes, and you have no basis for objecting to anybody else's behavior.

    I find it curious that atheism requires that morality be subjective, yet most atheists behave as if it's objective.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

      Dr Jacob Bronowski made a valid point about those who consider they have "absolute knowledge".

      “There is no absolute knowledge. And those who claim it, whether they are scientists or dogmatists, open the door to tragedy.”
      Declaring that there is no absolute knowledge is stating an absolute.
      Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
      But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
      Than a fool in the eyes of God


      From "Fools Gold" by Petra

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

        It has nothing to do with preference. It's a simple fact that if morality is subjective, then anything goes, and you have no basis for objecting to anybody else's behavior.

        I find it curious that atheism requires that morality be subjective, yet most atheists behave as if it's objective.
        Again, you not liking the idea of subjective morality does not make it therefore objective. You don't even have an argument. Just a subjective preference.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
          As previously noted your morality is subjective and is no more "objective" than the subjective morality of an Iranian Imam.

          Which of you has the correct and "objective" morality?
          Your question is based on the faulty premise that every claim of objective morality stands on equal footing.
          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
          Than a fool in the eyes of God


          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

          Comment


          • Originally posted by EvoUK View Post

            Again, you not liking the idea of subjective morality does not make it therefore objective. You don't even have an argument. Just a subjective preference.
            Them MM's point follows: you have no basis for objecting to anybody else's behavior...
            Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

            Comment


            • Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post

              If you found "hardcore" (say Hustler magazine) in a grade 5-8 school library, would you want it removed?
              She has already gone on record supporting adults being naked in front of children, so that's a bad example to toss at her.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by EvoUK View Post

                Again, you not liking the idea of subjective morality does not make it therefore objective. You don't even have an argument. Just a subjective preference.
                Again, it has nothing to do with whether or not I like it. I'm simply pointing out the consequences of your stated belief, a belief which you prove is nothing more than lip service every time you utter a word of condemnation about someone's conduct, because contrary to your worldview, humans instinctively know that morality is objective, which is why virtue is so highly valued.
                Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                Than a fool in the eyes of God


                From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                Comment


                • Originally posted by seer View Post

                  Them MM's point follows: you have no basis for objecting to anybody else's behavior...
                  Of course we do - as has been explained to you ad nauseum in your favourite morality threads in Apologetics. You think believing in an objective morality is neater or preferable, but you've (like MM) never been able to actually defend it, other than saying you don't like the idea of subjective morality. Like you are now.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                    Declaring that there is no absolute knowledge is stating an absolute.
                    The late Dr Bronowski made the remark standing by one of the pools full of cremated human remains at Auschwitz, a place where he lost family members , and his comment was in reference to those [like the Nazis] who believe they have absolute knowledge.

                    He was incorrect on the numbers but that does not reduce the horror.

                    I won't post the video URL as I know you do not care to watch videos.



                    https://speakola.com/ideas/jacob-bro...auschwitz-1975

                    Jacob Bronowski: 'This is what men do when they aspire to the knowledge of gods', The Ascent of Man - 1975


                    Episode aired 18 March 1975

                    It's said that science will dehumanise people and turn them into numbers. That's false, tragically false. Look for yourself. This is the concentration camp and crematorium at Auschwitz. This is where people were turned into numbers.

                    Into this pond were flushed the ashes of some four million people. And that was not done by gas. It was done by arrogance, it was done by dogma, it was done by ignorance. When people believe that they have absolute knowledge, with no test in reality, this is how they behave. This is what men do when they aspire to the knowledge of gods.

                    Science is a very human form of knowledge. We are always at the brink of the known; we always feel forward for what is to be hoped. Every judgment in science stands on the edge of error and is personal. Science is a tribute to what we can know although we are fallible. In the end, the words were said by Oliver Cromwell: "I beseech you in the bowels of Christ: Think it possible you may be mistaken."

                    I owe it as a scientist to my friend Leo Szilard, I owe it as a human being to the many members of my family who died here, to stand here as a survivor and a witness. We have to cure ourselves of the itch for absolute knowledge and power. We have to close the distance between the push-button order and the human act. We have to touch people.


                    "It ain't necessarily so
                    The things that you're liable
                    To read in the Bible
                    It ain't necessarily so
                    ."

                    Sportin' Life
                    Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by EvoUK View Post

                      Of course we do - as has been explained to you ad nauseum in your favourite morality threads in Apologetics. You think believing in an objective morality is neater or preferable, but you've (like MM) never been able to actually defend it, other than saying you don't like the idea of subjective morality. Like you are now.
                      No, the point is if you really believe that morality is subjective then you have no rational grounds to object to any behavior (even book burning). You like steak I like lobster - there are no morally right or wrong answers, just tastes. And humans intuitively believe in universal moral categories - whatever particulars fill those categories. Also keep in mind that the majority of atheistic philosophers hold to universal moral truths via moral realism theory. Just shows how deep this intuitive sense is.
                      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                        The late Dr Bronowski made the remark standing by one of the pools full of cremated human remains at Auschwitz, a place where he lost family members , and his comment was in reference to those [like the Nazis] who believe they have absolute knowledge.
                        What is the problem for a moral relativist like you? Just animals doing what animals do. Why do you hate nature so much?

                        Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                          The late Dr Bronowski made the remark standing by one of the pools full of cremated human remains at Auschwitz, a place where he lost family members , and his comment was in reference to those [like the Nazis] who believe they have absolute knowledge.
                          Okay. And? The claim that there is no absolute knowledge is self-contradictory because it's an absolute statement.
                          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                          Than a fool in the eyes of God


                          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                            She has already gone on record supporting adults being naked in front of children, so that's a bad example to toss at her.
                            Not just being naked with them, but taking baths with them. And she does her arrogant little condemnation bit like she's so enlightened and we're so backward.
                            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                              Not just being naked with them, but taking baths with them. And she does her arrogant little condemnation bit like she's so enlightened and we're so backward.
                              At certain ages a parent bathing with a child is not that uncommon. But we're talking toddlers here.

                              I'm always still in trouble again

                              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                              "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                                At certain ages a parent bathing with a child is not that uncommon. But we're talking toddlers here.
                                Yup.
                                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                                Comment

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