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  • Originally posted by tabibito View Post

    Ah - wasn't aware of that.
    More importantly, if you know where the post is, it's trivial to quote it, so the post # thing really just comes across as making someone jump through additional hoops for no good reason.

    Comment


    • Noting with interest that Rushdie gets a mention in an article about the Diary of Anne Frank getting caught up in the push to remove unsavoury books from schools in Fort Worth (along with the Bible). The article also refers to Heinrich Heine's "Where they burn books, they will ultimately burn people."

      Maybe a little common sense should be exercised in deciding which books should be subjected to censorship.
      1Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω
      Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
      .
      If Palm Sunday really was a Sunday, Christ was crucified on a Thursday (which could be adduced from the gospels anyway).

      "The synoptic gospels claim that Jesus was crucified on the 15th day of Nisan and buried on the 14th day of Nisan:" Majority Consensus

      Comment


      • Originally posted by tabibito View Post
        The article also refers to Heinrich Heine's "Where they burn books, they will ultimately burn people."
        Which remark rather neatly brings this thread full circle and back to the image in the OP.



        "It ain't necessarily so
        The things that you're liable
        To read in the Bible
        It ain't necessarily so
        ."

        Sportin' Life
        Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

          Which remark rather neatly brings this thread full circle and back to the image in the OP.


          Source: https://bookriot.com/weeding-racist-books-at-libraries/


          WEED THE RACIST BOOKS, LIBRARIES

          The National Coalition Against Censorship is disturbed by the recent decision of Dr. Seuss Enterprises to cease publication of six children’s books by Dr. Seuss because of their implicit racism.

          Our society is in the midst of a broad conversation about the racism embedded in many of our cultural touchstones. We need to acknowledge that many of the books that are part of America’s literary heritage express attitudes about race that may offend people. Almost all authors are influenced by the prejudices of their times. Dr. Seuss is no exception.

          However, we must draw a line between criticizing texts and purging them. If we remove every book that is offensive to someone, there will be very little left on the shelf.

          NCAC supports and celebrates efforts to diversify library holdings, expand the stories told through school curricula and encourage underrepresented voices to be heard. While we cannot ignore the insidious effect of allowing children to uncritically encounter embedded racism in the books they read, we should not expunge those books from the culture as a whole. It is important to preserve our literary heritage even when it reflects attitudes that are no longer tolerated as they once were.

          If nothing else, books like those that have been dropped by Dr. Seuss Enterprises show us how important it is to read critically and temper our admiration for beloved authors with the knowledge that they are often flawed human beings.


          Statements like this only further muddy the waters of the mission and goals of public libraries and what their responsibility is relating to books like these. NCAC believes in preserving books that even the organization dedicated to upholding a beloved author’s legacy has deemed racist is necessary. In doing so, they fundamentally misunderstand the purpose of libraries as well.

          So what does a library do?

          The good news is, there’s a simple solution.

          One of the responsibilities of public libraries is to maintain a collection development policy, which outlines the kinds of materials purchased with the budget, as well as the decision making that goes into removing books from a collection. One of the techniques most commonly used by libraries in the US is the CREW method. This freely-available manual was created by the Texas State Library and Archives Commission and is updated when appropriate. The latest edition, for example, includes guidelines for where and how to update ebooks.

          The CREW method was developed in 1976 with the goal of helping small and mid-sized libraries which have limited staff and budget to keep their collections as relevant as possible. It’s since grown in usefulness, and it’s a standard tool even among larger libraries. As it states in the introduction, “CREW: A Weeding Manual for Modern Libraries attempts to describe clearly, practically, and in a step-by-step fashion a now tried-and-true method of carrying out the five processes of ‘reverse selection:’ inventory, collection evaluation, collection maintenance, weeding, and discarding.”

          MUSTIE is the quick and dirty acronym used with the CREW method for determining material needing to be evaluated in libraries: Misleading/factually incorrect material/poor content; Ugly/worn beyond repair; Superceded/there’s a new edition or a better book on the topic; Trivial/of no discernible literary, scientific, or cultural merit; Irrelevant to the needs or interests of the library community (this in particular explains why some books are readily available in one library but may not be in a library in another community); and finally, Elsewhere/the material is easy to obtain from another library for those seeking it out.

          It’s under the very first criteria — Misleading/factually incorrect material/poor content — where the CREW method explicitly states racist material is something to weed.

          Racist material is poor content, and in the case of these six Dr. Seuss books, the parent company’s decision to cease reprints due to their racist illustrations gives libraries any and all necessary proof of why the books need to be weeded.

          No, this doesn’t mean pulling Green Eggs and Ham nor The Cat in the Hat, both books which have long circulation histories, as well as remain perennial favorites in many communities.

          What it does mean is that And To Think I Saw it On Mulberry Street, If I Ran The Zoo, McElligot’s Pool, On Beyond Zebra!, Scrambled Eggs Super!, and The Cat’s Quizzer are ready to be decommissioned. Libraries which still have those titles among their holdings likely weren’t seeing much circulation of them prior to March 2, and with clear and direct admission of what’s inside those books from the organization responsible for publishing them, there’s no excuse to keep them around.

          It’s not censorship. It’s responsible collection curation.

          It’s not censorship. It’s being accountable to your community, which is comprised of people from a myriad of backgrounds.

          It’s not censorship. It’s accountability.

          Libraries are in a unique position here to be leaders, rather than followers by adhering to their own guidelines when it comes to what’s held within their stacks. Organizations like NCAC have it wrong — and they’ll continue to have it wrong as long as they fail to understand the purpose of the library, as well as when they have the book business as their priority. Their statement isn’t about helping readers or preserving literary heritage. It’s about the bottom line when it comes to making a buck.

          And libraries don’t have that as their central mission. They have serving their communities at the forefront, and to be leaders in doing just that, those six books need to be discarded.

          © Copyright Original Source

          Comment


          • Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post

            Source: https://bookriot.com/weeding-racist-books-at-libraries/


            WEED THE RACIST BOOKS, LIBRARIES

            The National Coalition Against Censorship is disturbed by the recent decision of Dr. Seuss Enterprises to cease publication of six children’s books by Dr. Seuss because of their implicit racism.

            Our society is in the midst of a broad conversation about the racism embedded in many of our cultural touchstones. We need to acknowledge that many of the books that are part of America’s literary heritage express attitudes about race that may offend people. Almost all authors are influenced by the prejudices of their times. Dr. Seuss is no exception.

            However, we must draw a line between criticizing texts and purging them. If we remove every book that is offensive to someone, there will be very little left on the shelf.

            NCAC supports and celebrates efforts to diversify library holdings, expand the stories told through school curricula and encourage underrepresented voices to be heard. While we cannot ignore the insidious effect of allowing children to uncritically encounter embedded racism in the books they read, we should not expunge those books from the culture as a whole. It is important to preserve our literary heritage even when it reflects attitudes that are no longer tolerated as they once were.

            If nothing else, books like those that have been dropped by Dr. Seuss Enterprises show us how important it is to read critically and temper our admiration for beloved authors with the knowledge that they are often flawed human beings.


            Statements like this only further muddy the waters of the mission and goals of public libraries and what their responsibility is relating to books like these. NCAC believes in preserving books that even the organization dedicated to upholding a beloved author’s legacy has deemed racist is necessary. In doing so, they fundamentally misunderstand the purpose of libraries as well.

            So what does a library do?

            The good news is, there’s a simple solution.

            One of the responsibilities of public libraries is to maintain a collection development policy, which outlines the kinds of materials purchased with the budget, as well as the decision making that goes into removing books from a collection. One of the techniques most commonly used by libraries in the US is the CREW method. This freely-available manual was created by the Texas State Library and Archives Commission and is updated when appropriate. The latest edition, for example, includes guidelines for where and how to update ebooks.

            The CREW method was developed in 1976 with the goal of helping small and mid-sized libraries which have limited staff and budget to keep their collections as relevant as possible. It’s since grown in usefulness, and it’s a standard tool even among larger libraries. As it states in the introduction, “CREW: A Weeding Manual for Modern Libraries attempts to describe clearly, practically, and in a step-by-step fashion a now tried-and-true method of carrying out the five processes of ‘reverse selection:’ inventory, collection evaluation, collection maintenance, weeding, and discarding.”

            MUSTIE is the quick and dirty acronym used with the CREW method for determining material needing to be evaluated in libraries: Misleading/factually incorrect material/poor content; Ugly/worn beyond repair; Superceded/there’s a new edition or a better book on the topic; Trivial/of no discernible literary, scientific, or cultural merit; Irrelevant to the needs or interests of the library community (this in particular explains why some books are readily available in one library but may not be in a library in another community); and finally, Elsewhere/the material is easy to obtain from another library for those seeking it out.

            It’s under the very first criteria — Misleading/factually incorrect material/poor content — where the CREW method explicitly states racist material is something to weed.

            Racist material is poor content, and in the case of these six Dr. Seuss books, the parent company’s decision to cease reprints due to their racist illustrations gives libraries any and all necessary proof of why the books need to be weeded.

            No, this doesn’t mean pulling Green Eggs and Ham nor The Cat in the Hat, both books which have long circulation histories, as well as remain perennial favorites in many communities.

            What it does mean is that And To Think I Saw it On Mulberry Street, If I Ran The Zoo, McElligot’s Pool, On Beyond Zebra!, Scrambled Eggs Super!, and The Cat’s Quizzer are ready to be decommissioned. Libraries which still have those titles among their holdings likely weren’t seeing much circulation of them prior to March 2, and with clear and direct admission of what’s inside those books from the organization responsible for publishing them, there’s no excuse to keep them around.

            It’s not censorship. It’s responsible collection curation.

            It’s not censorship. It’s being accountable to your community, which is comprised of people from a myriad of backgrounds.

            It’s not censorship. It’s accountability.

            Libraries are in a unique position here to be leaders, rather than followers by adhering to their own guidelines when it comes to what’s held within their stacks. Organizations like NCAC have it wrong — and they’ll continue to have it wrong as long as they fail to understand the purpose of the library, as well as when they have the book business as their priority. Their statement isn’t about helping readers or preserving literary heritage. It’s about the bottom line when it comes to making a buck.

            And libraries don’t have that as their central mission. They have serving their communities at the forefront, and to be leaders in doing just that, those six books need to be discarded.

            © Copyright Original Source

            It’s not censorship. It’s responsible collection curation.

            It’s not censorship. It’s being accountable to your community, which is comprised of people from a myriad of backgrounds.

            It’s not censorship. It’s accountability.

            Who are they trying to convince? Those reading this drek, or themselves?

            Keep clicking those heels together as you say it and maybe, just maybe you can make it true.

            I'm always still in trouble again

            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
            "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

            Comment


            • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
              It’s not censorship. It’s responsible collection curation.

              It’s not censorship. It’s being accountable to your community, which is comprised of people from a myriad of backgrounds.

              It’s not censorship. It’s accountability.

              Who are they trying to convince? Those reading this drek, or themselves?

              Keep clicking those heels together as you say it and maybe, just maybe you can make it true.
              There's always some sort of doublespeak involved to justify their tactics.

              It's not cancel culture, it's "consequence" culture.
              It's not censorship, it's enforcing the terms of service.
              They aren't the government, they are free to choose what they want on their platform.
              Last edited by CivilDiscourse; 08-18-2022, 07:27 AM.

              Comment


              • It wasn't the left that wanted the removal of the Diary of Anne Frank from the Fort Worth school libraries.
                1Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω
                Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                .
                If Palm Sunday really was a Sunday, Christ was crucified on a Thursday (which could be adduced from the gospels anyway).

                "The synoptic gospels claim that Jesus was crucified on the 15th day of Nisan and buried on the 14th day of Nisan:" Majority Consensus

                Comment


                • Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post

                  There's always some sort of doublespeak involved to justify their tactics.

                  It's not cancel culture, it's "consequence" culture.
                  It's not censorship, it's enforcing the terms of service.
                  They aren't the government, they are free to choose what they want on their platform.
                  Do they have any idea who is in charge of public libraries? Those librarians are government employees.

                  I'm always still in trouble again

                  "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                  "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                  "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                    Do they have any idea who is in charge of public libraries? Those librarians are government employees.
                    That was more general defense about their various censorship policies. But they have ton's of defenses.

                    Remember when the Alamo drafthouse broke discrimination law for wonder woman? They had "women's only" showings, and were going to only have women working that night. There were ton's of people defending that.

                    Look at Stoic defending discrimination in minneapolis schools for teacher firings.

                    There's always a rationalization that makes their use of tactics deemed bad on their face, to not be bad.

                    Comment


                    • We should just have a banned book library where we put all the books everyone wants to ban. That way they are not in the regular library but people can go there to read them if they want.

























                      ...then we can watch who does and know who to cancel




                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                        We should just have a banned book library where we put all the books everyone wants to ban. That way they are not in the regular library but people can go there to read them if they want.

























                        ...then we can watch who does and know who to cancel


                        Stop giving them ideas.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by tabibito View Post
                          It wasn't the left that wanted the removal of the Diary of Anne Frank from the Fort Worth school libraries.
                          No, but they have their own love of banning books

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post

                            No, but they have their own love of banning books
                            Yup. Extremists on both sides exhibit the same behaviours.

                            The article about banning the Bible and the Diary of Anne Frank makes that fairly clear. It seems that the libraries in question are yielding to demands from both sides of the aisle. Maybe they'll go all the way and simply close.
                            1Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω
                            Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                            .
                            If Palm Sunday really was a Sunday, Christ was crucified on a Thursday (which could be adduced from the gospels anyway).

                            "The synoptic gospels claim that Jesus was crucified on the 15th day of Nisan and buried on the 14th day of Nisan:" Majority Consensus

                            Comment

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