"I think we should throw those books in a fire"

[rogue06]

Poor John Lennon. He tried so hard to dig himself out from under that one, but he wasn't wrong. I mean, there weren't thousands of screaming teenagers showing up at churches to learn about Jesus.

It was a simple observation of fact on his part, but many people were upset by that observation and took it out on him. The old kill the messenger problem.

[rogue06]

And as the word "opinion" has at least three definitions you need to decide which definition you are going to employ.

How about this... instead of playing definition games, why don't you try noodling out which he meant and then asking if that's correct.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

So you would have no problem with porn in school libraries?

You would need to define what you understand by "porn". Like beauty, pornography is usually to be found in the eye of beholder.

How are sales of Mein Kampf doing in Germany? And aren't books that deny the Holocaust also banned in Germany?

Mein Kampf can now be purchased here. Books that deny historical facts are a different topic from novels which are the subject of the OP.

[rogue06]

You would need to define what you understand by "porn". Like beauty, pornography is usually to be found in the eye of beholder.



Mein Kampf can now be purchased here. Books that deny historical facts are a different topic from novels which are the subject of the OP.

In this case it consists of things like a POV of a man looking down at another man kneeling in front of him while the latter performs oral sex on him. Absolutely nothing is left to the imagination. It is extremely explicit and graphic.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

Freedom of expression means that everybody has a right to put their ideas out there, including -- and perhaps especially -- ideas that one disapproves of. As the saying goes, "Offensive speech is protected speech by definition, because inoffensive speech needs no protection." This, of course, does not mean that everything is appropriate for everybody, and so placing some restrictions on what is accessible depending on the audience is prudent and acceptable, but that simply means removing inappropriate material, not burning it.

The question remains as to who decides what is inappropriate material for older teens? I suspect my opinion on what a fifteen year old may read might differ from yours.

It might also be opined that school libraries are lagging behind given that news items tell us many young children are viewing pornographic images [explicit variations of sex often with violence] online.

[Thoughtful Monk]

If you really want to be concerned about censorship, consider this article from CNN. https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/29/media...ong/index.html

An episode of Simpsons that mentions Tiananmen Square is missing from Disney+ in Hong Kong. There are many other examples of corporate America censoring (and probably self-censoring that we don't know about) themselves for fear of offending the Chinese government. This kind of Chinese government control over our free speech should be a higher concern than it is.

[Thoughtful Monk]

It might also be opined that school libraries are lagging behind given that news items tell us many young children are viewing pornographic images [explicit variations of sex often with violence] online.

Because the teens are viewing it on-line doesn't mean the libraries should be showing it.

[rogue06]

If you really want to be concerned about censorship, consider this article from CNN. https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/29/media...ong/index.html

An episode of Simpsons that mentions Tiananmen Square is missing from Disney+ in Hong Kong. There are many other examples of corporate America censoring (and probably self-censoring that we don't know about) themselves for fear of offending the Chinese government. This kind of Chinese government control over our free speech should be a higher concern than it is.

Look at how South Park caved to the Muslims a few years ago and removed a depiction of Mohammad.

[CivilDiscourse]

And as the word "opinion" has at least three definitions you need to decide which definition you are going to employ.

As previously stated, I do not play the definition game with you. If you wish something clarified, you must first provide a good faith effort to intuit what is meant of the word you wish a clarification on.

What do you imagine the root of the word "literature" to be?

Again, this is a subject you introduced, not I.

[Mountain Man]

The question remains as to who decides what is inappropriate material for older teens?

How about those of us who can actually defend the existence of objective morality?

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

As previously stated, I do not play the definition game with you. If you wish something clarified, you must first provide a good faith effort to intuit what is meant of the word you wish a clarification on.


Again, this is a subject you introduced, not I.

As you are unprepared to define your terms feel free to leave the thread.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

How about those of us who can actually defend the existence of objective morality?

There is no objective morality! What you consider to be moral behaviour may not be considered so by someone from a different culture.

There ethical issues that may be argued pertain across all human cultures but that is a very complex issue.

[CivilDiscourse]

As you are unprepared to define your terms feel free to leave the thread.

I'm prepared to define terms. I just refuse to play your game unless you provide a good faith effort at intuiting the definition first.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

I'm prepared to define terms. I just refuse to play your game unless you provide a good faith effort at intuiting the definition first.

I am now requesting you leave the thread.

[CivilDiscourse]

I am now requesting you leave the thread.

Fair enough. Let it be understood that you kicked someone out because they requested you make a good faith effort at answering a question before they went down your flowery path.

Of course if the mods Sparko or rogue06 deem this request to essentially be frivilous, I'll be back.