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  • Hypatia_Alexandria
    replied
    Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post

    Because I'm not interested in jumping through hoops from someone who regularly makes double standards for herself, who pretends to be a historian but acts as if this is some surprising information, and who doesn't even know what a Hellenistic Scholar is. That clear enough for ya?
    We both know why you are suddenly stalling.



    Leave a comment:


  • Gondwanaland
    replied
    Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
    If "actual historians" support your opinion, why are you so coy about naming them and citing their viewpoints?
    Because I'm not interested in jumping through hoops from someone who regularly makes double standards for herself, who pretends to be a historian but acts as if this is some surprising information, and who doesn't even know what a Hellenistic Scholar is. In addition you've been soundly spanked on this topic several times in the past by myself and others (including by others right on this thread), and refuse to learn or absorb any knowledge from that and continue to repeat the same nonsense brainlessly. That clear enough for ya?

    Leave a comment:


  • Hypatia_Alexandria
    replied
    Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post

    No thank you.
    If "actual historians" support your opinion, why are you so coy about naming them and citing their viewpoints?

    Leave a comment:


  • Gondwanaland
    replied
    Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
    No you didn't.
    Yes, I did.


    You tell me that your views are supported by "actual historians" so produce those historians with the evidence I have just requested.
    No thank you.
    Last edited by Gondwanaland; 12-07-2021, 05:32 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Hypatia_Alexandria
    replied
    Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post

    And such racism isn't "enshrined" in the societal mores of the USA either. We can tell people that, and our problems will be over!
    Not any more, and so your point is?

    Leave a comment:


  • Hypatia_Alexandria
    replied
    Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post

    SO you got an answer and..... now do not want the answer? Is what you are saying here?

    I answered your question.
    No you didn't.

    You tell me that your views are supported by "actual historians" so produce those historians with the evidence I have just requested.

    Leave a comment:


  • Gondwanaland
    replied
    Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
    Again that is not exactly what I asked you.

    I asked if "according to you anti-Semitism as we now understand that term, was to be found within societies throughout the Graeco-Roman world?" Emphasised for clarity

    You have repeated your allegation and also stated that your opinion is likewise held by "actual historians"

    Who are these historians?

    I would like some quotes from them where they provide evidence from across the Graeco-Roman world that anti-Semitism, as we now understand that term, was to be found within those societies and that those societies subjected Jews to institutionalised state and religious persecution and ostracism and that the institutionalised persecution and ostracism was premised solely on the fact that they were Jews. As was the case in Christian societies.

    You have yet to produce any evidence in support of your contention. All you have done is insist that your opinion is correct and beyond dispute.
    SO you got an answer and..... now do not want the answer? Is what you are saying here?

    I answered your question. If you're this braindead that you cannot grasp the answer, I don't see what else I can do for you.

    I'm also unsure why you think there needs to be 'institutionalized' anti-semitism for something to be anti-semitism. But as usual you're a libtard who thinks 'institutionalized' is some magic word. No such thing is required for anti-semitism to exist. To insist on that is to spit on every case of anti-semitism that doesn't meet your magical criteria.

    Leave a comment:


  • Hypatia_Alexandria
    replied
    Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post

    Leaving out the 'according to you' (because it's not according to me it's according to actual historians, of which you are not). then Correct, anti-semitism existed
    Again that is not exactly what I asked you.

    I asked if "according to you anti-Semitism as we now understand that term, was to be found within societies throughout the Graeco-Roman world?" Emphasised for clarity

    You have repeated your allegation and also stated that your opinion is likewise held by "actual historians"

    Who are these historians?

    I would like some quotes from them where they provide evidence from across the Graeco-Roman world that anti-Semitism, as we now understand that term, was to be found within those societies and that those societies subjected Jews to institutionalised state and religious persecution and ostracism and that the institutionalised persecution and ostracism was premised solely on the fact that they were Jews. As was the case in Christian societies.

    You have yet to produce any evidence in support of your contention. All you have done is insist that your opinion is correct and beyond dispute.

    Leave a comment:


  • Gondwanaland
    replied
    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
    Dang. You beat me to it.

    She is saying that the anti-Semitism that Christians adopted from before their time automatically switched into a uniquely Christian endeavor. But OTOH the "Christian anti-Semitism" that the Nazis adopted remains Christian anti-Semitism even though it has features and basis's (economic for instance) that have nothing to with Christianity.

    It's the same inconsistency problem that keeps plaguing her and on which so many of her premises run afoul.
    Yep, some more of her usual special pleading.

    Leave a comment:


  • Gondwanaland
    replied
    Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
    That is not what I asked.

    Let me repeat my question.

    So, according to you anti-Semitism as we now understand that term, was to be found within societies throughout the Graeco-Roman world?


    Have I understood you correctly?
    Leaving out the 'according to you' (because it's not according to me it's according to actual historians, of which you are not). then Correct, anti-semitism existed and was acted on before Christianity existed, including in the Graeco-Roman world.

    Like? This isn't even controversial. It's not some sort of new information. Any historian worth their salt knows this.

    But then I guess that's the problem. I'm talking to a person who claims to be a historian but is not. A person who thought that: 1. being born in the US makes it impossible for one to be Hellenistic, and 2. that using the term "Hellenistic Scholar" somehow means you are claiming the scholar is Hellenistic rather than the common use of the term to mean they are an expert in Hellenistic scholarship.
    Last edited by Gondwanaland; 12-07-2021, 01:10 PM.

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  • Esther
    replied
    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
    Are you trying to make Gondwanaland jealous?
    I am trying to make him objective ha ha.

    Leave a comment:


  • Hypatia_Alexandria
    replied
    Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post

    Anti-semitism existed and was acted on before Christianity existed. Why is this so hard to grasp?
    That is not what I asked.

    Let me repeat my question.

    So, according to you anti-Semitism as we now understand that term, was to be found within societies throughout the Graeco-Roman world?


    Have I understood you correctly?

    Leave a comment:


  • Hypatia_Alexandria
    replied
    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
    Dang. You beat me to it.

    She is saying that the anti-Semitism that Christians adopted from before their time automatically switched into a uniquely Christian endeavor. But OTOH the "Christian anti-Semitism" that the Nazis adopted remains Christian anti-Semitism even though it has features and basis's (economic for instance) that have nothing to with Christianity.

    It's the same inconsistency problem that keeps plaguing her and on which so many of her premises run afoul.
    You have not addressed the ADL's anti-Semitic tropes.

    Perhaps the ADL is wrong as well.

    Leave a comment:


  • Hypatia_Alexandria
    replied
    Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post

    So, Christians adopted the antisemitism that existed before it, making it christian anti-semitism and new/distinct from what it inherited it from. However, Nazi anti-semitism is christian anti-semitism because it came from christian sources.

    Is that your claim?
    The Graeco-Roman world did not institutionalise enmity towards the Jews. The Christian world did.

    That there was anti-Judaic feelings and, on occasion violence, in the Graeco-Roman is not disputed but it was not something promulgated by the state.

    The animosity in Rome towards the Jews stemmed from those Jewish rebels who had revolted not the entire Jewish people; although understandably Jews were regarded with suspicion and hostility [possibly in the same manner in which American Japanese were regarded following the events of 80 years ago today].

    Early Christians wished to distance themselves and their [Jewish] founder/deity from those rebellious Jews and so extended that hostility towards to all Jews while adding an additional theological gloss. Hence we get Justin Martyr gloating over the destruction of Jerusalem under Hadrian because the Jews had rejected the Christ.

    Once Christianity had the ascendancy from the early fourth century that antagonism and hostility was developed further still becoming institutionalised.


    Leave a comment:


  • rogue06
    replied
    Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post

    So, Christians adopted the antisemitism that existed before it, making it christian anti-semitism and new/distinct from what it inherited it from. However, Nazi anti-semitism is christian anti-semitism because it came from christian sources.

    Is that your claim?
    Dang. You beat me to it.

    She is saying that the anti-Semitism that Christians adopted from before their time automatically switched into a uniquely Christian endeavor. But OTOH the "Christian anti-Semitism" that the Nazis adopted remains Christian anti-Semitism even though it has features and basis's (economic for instance) that have nothing to with Christianity.

    It's the same inconsistency problem that keeps plaguing her and on which so many of her premises run afoul.

    Leave a comment:

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