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  • Hypatia_Alexandria
    replied
    Originally posted by tabibito View Post

    The original argument never said "as we now understand that term."
    However, it seems unlikely that even the "as we now understand that term" is accurate in any case.
    You need to go back and read what I repeatedly written. I would also note that citing ancient beliefs about the Exodus - which in turn have their roots in other texts - does little to argue your case.

    Furthermore the views of one important but patrician Roman historian who grew up during the First Jewish War and who lived through another serious Jewish uprising across different provinces [the so-called Kitos War] it is understandable that he held somewhat unflattering views about the Jews. That his views may have been held by many others of his class [or indeed other classes] is not improbable. However, Tacitus was not writing on behalf of the state. There was no institutionalised enmity towards the Jews.

    Did you actually read the extract I gave you from E Mary Smallwood?

    Originally posted by tabibito View Post
    Tacitus' comments are however reflected in the church attitudes that you reported.
    Where does Tacitus accuse the Jews of killing the Christ? Where does Tacitus accuse the Jews of being children of the devil?

    You might like to read this https://jcpa.org/article/the-origins...anti-semitism/

    Later on, as is also made quite clear in the New Testament, gentile Christians began to claim that their communities were the true Israel.[2] They asserted that in neglecting many of the Torah’s commandments, they-and not the Jews-knew what God wanted from His people. The issues of the centrality and the remaining value and validity of the Torah were among the first reasons for tensions. Here one sees the beginnings of a split between Judaism and Christianity.

    “With this came the beginning of anti-Jewish sentiments in Christianity. It was also aggravated by a second factor. In the same period, perhaps in the second and certainly in the third generation of Christians-by the end of the first century of the Common Era-they began to explicitly call Jesus God. He, as a Jew, had never done so. In the four chronologically latest books of the New Testament, Jesus is called God, though only incidentally. These documents are all from around the turn of the first to the second century: the Gospel of John, the Epistle of the Hebrews, the Second Epistle of Peter, and the so-called Epistle of Titus.

    [...]

    “Why then does Matthew exculpate the Romans from the death of Jesus? The text has to be understood in the context of his time, around the 80s of the first century. In the middle of the 60s CE, under the Emperor Nero, the first persecutions of Christians had begun. There are indications that after that period there were further minor persecutions on a local level. This frightened the Christians.

    “For political reasons Matthew was keen that his writings should give the Romans the impression that Christians were not a danger to their empire. If a highly positioned person like Pilate says about Jesus ‘This man is completely innocent,’ it implies that Christianity is not something Romans have to fear. This in turn leads to the story of the Jews supposedly shouting ‘Let his blood come over us’-which means, ‘We take the responsibility for his death.’ Shifting the responsibility for Jesus’ death to the Jewish people is at odds with what Matthew says in the earlier parts of his Gospel to the effect that Jesus enjoyed immense popularity with the masses, that is, with the majority of the common Jewish people.”





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  • Sparko
    replied
    Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post

    You seem to want to go down a flowery path. Your distraction tactic is noted.
    flowerypath.jpg

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  • Hypatia_Alexandria
    replied
    Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post

    You seem to want to go down a flowery path. Your distraction tactic is noted.
    As far as I can deduce only one poster repeatedly references spanking other correspondents.

    Leave a comment:


  • Hypatia_Alexandria
    replied
    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
    You seem to have a preoccupation with spanking as some sort of sexual thing. This isn't the first time you have tried to make this connection and its always with such... enthusiasm.

    IOW, please keep your personal peccadillos personal. Thanks in advance.
    You might ask Gondwanaland to desist from referring to spanking people. Although I suspect you won't.

    Leave a comment:


  • CivilDiscourse
    replied
    Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

    It's interesting that you seem to consider I might get pleasure from your references to being physically abused. Isn't that often presented as the stereotypical plea of the abuser/rapist "She wanted it"?

    However, I would note that your remarks about inflicting corporal punishment on others extend beyond your various comments about it to me. You have also referred to other contributors getting "spanked" in your replies to correspondents:.

    This was to Oxmixxmud here: https://theologyweb.com/campus/forum/social-studies/civics-101/1225149-armed-protest-are-planned-in-all-50-state-capitals-and-dc/page8#post1225881



    This was to Ronson here: https://theologyweb.com/campus/forum...e2#post1214659

    My emphasis.

    The unusual interest in inflicting corporal punishment was dealt with [alongside other conditions] by Krafff-Ebing in his work Psychopathia Sexualis.


    You seem to want to go down a flowery path. Your distraction tactic is noted.

    Leave a comment:


  • rogue06
    replied
    Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
    It's interesting that you seem to consider I might get pleasure from your references to being physically abused. Isn't that often presented as the stereotypical plea of the abuser/rapist "She wanted it"?

    However, I would note that your remarks about inflicting corporal punishment on others extend beyond your various comments about it to me. You have also referred to other contributors getting "spanked" in your replies to correspondents:.

    This was to Oxmixxmud here: https://theologyweb.com/campus/forum/social-studies/civics-101/1225149-armed-protest-are-planned-in-all-50-state-capitals-and-dc/page8#post1225881



    This was to Ronson here: https://theologyweb.com/campus/forum...e2#post1214659

    My emphasis.

    The unusual interest in inflicting corporal punishment was dealt with [alongside other conditions] by Krafff-Ebing in his work Psychopathia Sexualis.
    You seem to have a preoccupation with spanking as some sort of sexual thing. This isn't the first time you have tried to make this connection and its always with such... enthusiasm.

    IOW, please keep your personal peccadillos personal. Thanks in advance.

    Leave a comment:


  • tabibito
    replied
    Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

    It was not anti-Semitism in the modern understanding of the term, despite your repeated assertions to the contrary.


    You have been asked to provide citations from those "actual historians" whom you allege share your opinion that anti-Semitism. as we now understand that term, was to be found within societies throughout the Graeco-Roman world and you have declined to do so.

    The original argument never said "as we now understand that term."
    However, it seems unlikely that even the "as we now understand that term" is accurate in any case.
    Philip Schafer. Judeophobia (1998), 15
    “ … the Egyptian and Greco-Roman tradition of the Exodus: the Jews were driven out of Egypt by force in a kind of “ethnic cleansing” because they were polluted lepers and/or unwelcome foreigners; it was after this explustion that they founded Jerusalem and became Jews in the full sense of the word.
    This early example of counter-history proved to be one the most powerful anti-Jewish statements, not only in ancient history but until modern times. The legend can be traced back to the early third century BCE and reached its literary climax in the “grand synthesis” of anti-Jewish traditions written by Tacitus.”


    Chapter Title: Tacitus and the Defamation of the Jews
    Book Title: The Construct of Identity in Hellenistic Judaism
    Book Subtitle: Essays on Early Jewish Literature and History
    Book Author(s): Erich S. Gruen
    Published by: De Gruyter
    Stable URL: https://www.jstor.org/stable/j.ctvbkjxph.17

    Among other remarks, Tacitus brands the Jews
    as a race of men hated by the gods. They regard as profane everything that we
    (Romans) hold as sacredand vice versa.Their practices are base and wicked,
    and prevail through their own depravity.They are a people most especially inclined
    to lust. Although they wont sleep with gentiles, among themselves there
    is nothing they wont do (nihil inlicitum). Those who cross over to their ways
    scorn the gods, abandon their own nation, and hold their parents, siblings,
    and children cheap.Jewish rites are sordid and ridiculous.Jews throughout
    their history were the most despised of subject peoples and the basest of
    nations.


    There doesn't seem to a whole lot of support for your contention; "as we now understand that term." Tacitus' comments are however reflected in the church attitudes that you reported.

    Leave a comment:


  • Hypatia_Alexandria
    replied
    Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post
    Anti-semitism existing doesn't require them to be 'singled out'. By that idiotic logic, even Nazi Germany was not anti-semitic because they exterminated homosexuals like yourself, Romani people, Jehova's Witnesses, mentally disabled people, blacks, and more, alongside the Jews, and therefore did not 'single out' Jews.
    Why have you suddenly leapt from the Graeco-Roman world to Nazi Germany? It is your allegations about the Graeco-Roman world that I am refuting [and I have provided comments from other academics who hold the same view as myself].

    Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post
    I'm unsure why you seem to believe that for anti-semitism to exist Jews somehow have to be the only people being discriminated against or oppressed and if some other group is, magically it is not anti-semitism.
    It was not anti-Semitism in the modern understanding of the term, despite your repeated assertions to the contrary.

    Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post
    Yes, I declined to leap through hoops set forth by a pretend historian who has already had her nonsense debunked, who doesn't know what a Hellenistic Scholar is.
    Your ridiculously peevish posturing is hilarious.

    You seem to be labouring under the arrogant delusion that because you have claimed [without an iota of evidence] that something is a "fact" everyone else must accept it to be a fact

    You have been asked to provide citations from those "actual historians" whom you allege share your opinion that anti-Semitism. as we now understand that term, was to be found within societies throughout the Graeco-Roman world and you have declined to do so.

    The simple fact is that no such accredited historian would ever make such a claim. However, you cannot bring yourself to acknowledge that you have made foolish remarks.

    Leave a comment:


  • Hypatia_Alexandria
    replied
    Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post
    No, I like making allusions to how soundly your nonsense has been defeated. But it appears that turns you on.
    It's interesting that you seem to consider I might get pleasure from your references to being physically abused. Isn't that often presented as the stereotypical plea of the abuser/rapist "She wanted it"?

    However, I would note that your remarks about inflicting corporal punishment on others extend beyond your various comments about it to me. You have also referred to other contributors getting "spanked" in your replies to correspondents:.

    This was to Oxmixxmud here: https://theologyweb.com/campus/forum/social-studies/civics-101/1225149-armed-protest-are-planned-in-all-50-state-capitals-and-dc/page8#post1225881

    Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post
    I'm afraid you don't actually get to set such rules. Licona got spanked on that a while back.


    This was to Ronson here: https://theologyweb.com/campus/forum...e2#post1214659

    Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post

    Too true. Hilariously he got soundly spanked by a Mod later on in that thread where he tried to order you and me to stop posting on the thread when we dared to question his anonymous sources, and was told he cannot, in fact, kick people off the thread when they question something he brought up by posting.
    My emphasis.


    The unusual interest in inflicting corporal punishment was dealt with [alongside other conditions] by Krafff-Ebing in his work Psychopathia Sexualis.



    Leave a comment:


  • CivilDiscourse
    replied
    Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
    Post # 466


    Post # 496


    Two comments within two pages that refer to spanking a women. Hmmm. You do seem to like making allusions to administering corporal punishment. Is there something you would like to share with us all?
    Oh look. Joking Distraction Tactic.

    Leave a comment:


  • Gondwanaland
    replied
    Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

    Not in the way we understand that term today. The Jews were one of various groups that, on occasion, suffered social opprobrium and sometimes violence. They were not deliberately singled out.
    Anti-semitism existing doesn't require them to be 'singled out'. By that idiotic logic, even Nazi Germany was not anti-semitic because they exterminated homosexuals like yourself, Romani people, Jehova's Witnesses, mentally disabled people, blacks, and more, alongside the Jews, and therefore did not 'single out' Jews.

    I'm unsure why you seem to believe that for anti-semitism to exist Jews somehow have to be the only people being discriminated against or oppressed and if some other group is, magically it is not anti-semitism.
    Indeed when pressed to name the "actual historians" whom he alleged supported his own opinion Gondwanaland declined to respond.
    Yes, I declined to leap through hoops set forth by a pretend historian who has already had her nonsense debunked, who doesn't know what a Hellenistic Scholar is.

    Leave a comment:


  • Gondwanaland
    replied
    Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
    Post # 466


    Post # 496


    Two comments within two pages that refer to spanking a women. Hmmm. You do seem to like making allusions to administering corporal punishment. Is there something you would like to share with us all?
    No, I like making allusions to how soundly your nonsense has been defeated. But it appears that turns you on.

    Leave a comment:


  • Hypatia_Alexandria
    replied
    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
    Continuing to ignore the fact that anti-Semitism was around centuries before Christianity because it upsets your anti-Christian rant is, OTOH, most definitely bigotry.
    Not in the way we understand that term today. The Jews were one of various groups that, on occasion, suffered social opprobrium and sometimes violence. They were not deliberately singled out.

    Nor was anti-Judaism institutionalised across societies in the Graeco-Roman world as it was by Christian societies.

    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
    Continuing to try to minimize the centuries of pagan anti-Semitism because it upsets your anti-Christian diatribe is, OTOH, most definitely bigotry
    So far not one of you has managed to produce an iota of evidence in support of your contentions.

    Indeed when pressed to name the "actual historians" whom he alleged supported his own opinion Gondwanaland declined to respond.

    A less charitable individual than myself might regard his refusal as a desperate attempt to save face because he knew he couldn't produce the names of any such historians.

    Leave a comment:


  • Hypatia_Alexandria
    replied

    Post # 466
    Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post
    So it was clear enough for you or no? Do you need me to be more explicit in why I won't jump through the hoops of a braindead twit that doesn't know what a Hellenistic scholar is, who has already been soundly spanked by myself and others on this very topic, who has refused to take any of that and adjust her braindead argument instead of brainlessly repeating it?
    Post # 496
    Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post
    Perhaps, perhaps not (I think it is, especially when you don't apply the same logic to the Nazis). But it IS historically inaccurate, and you've been soundly spanked on this countless times and don't care that you're telling porkies. Which is something a bigot doesn't care about, so that checks out.
    Two comments within two pages that refer to spanking a women. Hmmm. You do seem to like making allusions to administering corporal punishment. Is there something you would like to share with us all?

    Leave a comment:


  • rogue06
    replied
    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

    Well, there's that lady who was walking through the park one day in the very merry month of may.
    Wimmenfolk love us rogues smiley flirt2.gif

    Leave a comment:

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