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Innocent people held in prison

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  • #16
    Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
    Kevin Strickland gets zero state compensation. Does that seem fair to you? Stupid law limits compensation to those cleared by dna evidence.
    Meanwhile: Fundraiser for US man exonerated after 43 years in prison tops $1.4m

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
    "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by tabibito View Post

      I don't see anyone here disagreeing with you. Perhaps you could refer it to BLMs attention, so that they have the opportunity to take up a legitimate cause for once. But I note that people who are interested in his plight have collectively contributed 1.4 million dollars to the man in recognition of the wrongs done to him. Did you add to that sum, or are you content to just sit back and make noise about it?

      The Midwest Innocence Project sets up fundraisers when cases lead to exoneration, and to which you can make a donation.
      No, I will not be donating to Kevin Strickland and I am pretty sure that BLM activists already know about it. I am glad to see that he is getting support - but it should be coming from the State. Don’t let me stop you though.
      “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
      “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
      “not all there” - you know who you are

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by seanD View Post

        I'm all for this 100%. And I think it should be a capital offense. That goes for police officers, prosecutors and witnesses. The only reason I hesitantly oppose the death penalty is because of a corrupt system. This would correct that problem.
        In an ideal world, yes. It'd open up another avenue of possible corruption where the accused's family or friends tried to smear the arresting officer to make him/her look tainted.

        I'm all for "corrupt cops" getting their comeuppance, but in many cases, it would be actually guilty prisoners trying to find a way - ANY way - to get sprung out of jail.
        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

          In an ideal world, yes. It'd open up another avenue of possible corruption where the accused's family or friends tried to smear the arresting officer to make him/her look tainted.

          I'm all for "corrupt cops" getting their comeuppance, but in many cases, it would be actually guilty prisoners trying to find a way - ANY way - to get sprung out of jail.
          That is always a risk. Smearing is already a part of the game though. But there needs to be a strong disincentive to falsifying evidence, but that could be achieved by finding ways to alter the culture that encourages a closing of ranks when wrongs are committed.
          Last edited by tabibito; 11-28-2021, 07:36 AM.
          1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
          .
          ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
          Scripture before Tradition:
          but that won't prevent others from
          taking it upon themselves to deprive you
          of the right to call yourself Christian.

          ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by firstfloor View Post

            No, I will not be donating to Kevin Strickland and I am pretty sure that BLM activists already know about it. I am glad to see that he is getting support - but it should be coming from the State. Don’t let me stop you though.
            It can be assumed that every non black donating to that fund demonstrates that racism is not a driver in their world view (with blacks, non racism cannot be assumed).
            It is concrete evidence that there is something wrong with the narrative that racism permeates every facet of a white American's life.
            1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
            .
            ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
            Scripture before Tradition:
            but that won't prevent others from
            taking it upon themselves to deprive you
            of the right to call yourself Christian.

            ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by firstfloor View Post

              No, I will not be donating to Kevin Strickland and I am pretty sure that BLM activists already know about it. I am glad to see that he is getting support - but it should be coming from the State. Don’t let me stop you though.
              The "state" means the taxpayers -- the people. And it appears the people are already taking care of it.

              I'm always still in trouble again

              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
              "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by tabibito View Post

                That is always a risk. Smearing is already a part of the game though. But there needs to be a strong disincentive to falsifying evidence, but that could be achieved by finding ways to alter the culture that encourages a closing of ranks when wrongs are committed.
                And I think that is the biggest challenge. Particularly in "union shops".
                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                  The "state" means the taxpayers -- the people. And it appears the people are already taking care of it.
                  I'd love to see stats (they aren't collected, as far as I know) of the political orientation of people donating - not only to the specific fund set up, but to the other activities WRT wrongfully incarcerated people.
                  I have the feeling that it would be an eye opener.
                  1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                  .
                  ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
                  Scripture before Tradition:
                  but that won't prevent others from
                  taking it upon themselves to deprive you
                  of the right to call yourself Christian.

                  ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                    And I think that is the biggest challenge. Particularly in "union shops".
                    If I remember rightly, you were relating an incident where you were pressured to close ranks on another thread. Union shop?
                    1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                    .
                    ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
                    Scripture before Tradition:
                    but that won't prevent others from
                    taking it upon themselves to deprive you
                    of the right to call yourself Christian.

                    ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by tabibito View Post

                      If I remember rightly, you were relating an incident where you were pressured to close ranks on another thread. Union shop?
                      Ours was not - it would have been worse if it had.
                      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by tabibito View Post

                        It can be assumed that every non black donating to that fund demonstrates that racism is not a driver in their world view (with blacks, non racism cannot be assumed).
                        It is concrete evidence that there is something wrong with the narrative that racism permeates every facet of a white American's life.
                        Have a look at numbers of blacks and other minorities attending elite universities, or gaining senior positions in professions, the military, the security forces, the Republican Party, and so on. If there are disparities, they are likely explained by institutional, but hidden, racism. Or, to get recognition, blacks have to perform better in work and society than their white counterpart.

                        Also, who are the prison population? Why is it so large? Who owns the prisons? Is it modern slavery?
                        “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
                        “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
                        “not all there” - you know who you are

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by firstfloor View Post

                          Have a look at numbers of blacks and other minorities attending elite universities, or gaining senior positions in professions, the military, the security forces, the Republican Party, and so on.
                          That would be a solid case for extending a hand to underprivileged groups in the form of improved opportunity for pre-tertiary education so that they can reach a standard of education that fits them for entry to tertiary education. Costs would quickly be defrayed through savings in such things as law enforcement and prison facilities, and fewer people depending on welfare. It might take 15 years before the pay off began to show, but I'd expect it to be around 10.

                          If there are disparities, they are likely explained by institutional, but hidden, racism.
                          Possible. More likely to be a matter of influence available through wealth - which would be hard to differentiate from racism, given the way wealth and political influence tend to be concentrated.

                          Or, to get recognition, blacks have to perform better in work and society than their white counterpart.
                          Almost certain, and definitely systemic racism. But that is a system which needs changing by increasing opportunities across the board. Focus on giving an advantage to one group does no more than shift the focus of racism from one group to another. Racism is unjust, regardless of who suffers or benefits from it.

                          Also, who are the prison population? Why is it so large? Who owns the prisons? Is it modern slavery?
                          Yep - chain gangs (for example) would definitely be encompassed by the ancient Roman definition of slavery, and a few other practices of a number of prison systems besides.

                          And then - the number of blacks committing murder is roughly the same as the number of whites committing murder. Very few blacks are killed by whites, very few whites by blacks. Those numbers do not reflect racism.
                          Last edited by tabibito; 11-28-2021, 10:20 AM.
                          1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                          .
                          ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
                          Scripture before Tradition:
                          but that won't prevent others from
                          taking it upon themselves to deprive you
                          of the right to call yourself Christian.

                          ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
                            Kevin Strickland gets zero state compensation. Does that seem fair to you? Stupid law limits compensation to those cleared by dna evidence.
                            I agree, the law in question is simply wrong. Sounds like crowdfunding is going to get him a nice sum though, so that's good. I gave some of my money, did you?

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by firstfloor View Post

                              No, I will not be donating to Kevin Strickland and I am pretty sure that BLM activists already know about it. I am glad to see that he is getting support - but it should be coming from the State. Don’t let me stop you though.
                              Well it's not coming from the state. And nothing is changing that. Whether we like it or not. So why are you not donating to help him out, especially when you rightly note that the law is not fair? Racist?

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by firstfloor View Post

                                Have a look at numbers of blacks and other minorities attending elite universities, or gaining senior positions in professions, the military, the security forces, the Republican Party, and so on. If there are disparities, they are likely explained by institutional, but hidden, racism. Or, to get recognition, blacks have to perform better in work and society than their white counterpart.

                                Also, who are the prison population? Why is it so large? Who owns the prisons? Is it modern slavery?
                                If that were the case, that it is 'institutional, but hidden, racism' at play, we would see similar stats between African Americans and African Immigrants. But we don't. We see much greater success, etc., from the latter, despite the fact that many of them come from even worse off situations back home than African Americans face here (poverty in the US looks like rich success to people in poverty in other areas like Africa). So since we don't see similar results and outcomes in both, even though both are clearly the same race, your assertion does not seem to reflect reality.

                                Comment

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