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The second amendment

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  • #31
    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
    I think that at best it is a case of co-option or cooptation -- taking over or appropriation of something for a new or different purpose.
    I did not know the history either, until I listened to Professor Anderson. Obviously it is a very important issue in this age as we move towards equality for all.
    James Madison, the author of the Second Amendment, wrote his amendment with his eye firmly fixed on practical politics. He introduced the amendment during Virginia’s debate over the ratification of the Constitution because Virginia Governor Patrick Henry saw danger lurking in Article 1, Section 8, of the Constitution, which gives Congress the power to provide for “organizing, arming, and disciplining” militias.
    Henry feared that without checks upon it, Congress could undermine the ability of militias in Virginia and elsewhere in the South to suppress slave uprisings and pursue runaway slaves.

    The militia issue was important enough for Henry to see it as grounds for opposing ratification of the Constitution. The positive power Congress had over militias, Henry reasoned, could easily be turned into restrictive power. “By this sir, you see that their control over our best defence is unlimited,” Henry warned his fellow Virginians.

    It took Madison two drafts to get the Second Amendment into the single sentence it is today. His careful wording was deliberate. In drawing a connection between militias and the right to bear arms rather than simply defending the right to bear arms, Madison, a slave holder himself, was speaking to his state’s ruling powers. Only the white men in the Virginia militia had the right to bear arms. Free African-Americans could join the militia, but they were limited to being drummers or buglers.

    The case for seeing the Second Amendment as part of the early debate over slave control and militias has been made with great persuasiveness by former Pennsylvania Assistant Attorney General Anthony F. Picadio in both the 2019 Pennsylvania Bar Quarterly and Transpartisan Review and by law professor Carl T. Bogus in the University of California, Davis Law Review of 1998.

    And in addition to such books as Professor Sally Hadden’s 2003 study, Slave Patrols: Law and Violence in Virginia and the Carolinas, and Brennan Center for Justice President Michael Waldman’s 2014 history, The Second Amendment: A Biography, there are also strong op-eds on this subject.

    But the link between slave control and the Second Amendment has not become a feature of today’s debate over gun control.
    https://www.thedailybeast.com/how-sl...-2nd-amendment
    “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
    “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
    “not all there” - you know who you are

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by firstfloor View Post

      I did not know the history either, until I listened to Professor Anderson. Obviously it is a very important issue in this age as we move towards equality for all.


      https://www.thedailybeast.com/how-sl...-2nd-amendment
      Carol Anderson? Isn't she the moron who claimed that the black riots and unrest around the Ferguson shooting (in which people lied and claimed Browns hands were up), was a result of "white rage" (because somehow white people being resentful of black "success" makes black people riot?)?
      Last edited by Gondwanaland; 10-28-2021, 11:00 AM.
      "So when you actually get the virus, you're going to start producing antibodies against multiple pieces of the virus. So, your antibodies are probably better at that point than the vaccination."
      - Pfizer Scientist Chris Croce

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by firstfloor View Post

        I did not know the history either, until I listened to Professor Anderson. Obviously it is a very important issue in this age as we move towards equality for all.


        https://www.thedailybeast.com/how-sl...-2nd-amendment
        I read your Transpartisan Review link and it does not say what you suggest it says. The second was not imagined or put forward with any consideration of slavery. That came later - concerning who it would apply to - it obviously would not apply to slaves, or even free blacks in "certain" states. Of course the argument is moot today since any law abiding citizen/adult can lawfully own a firearm.

        This claim is an outright falsehood: Dr. Anderson shows that the Second Amendment was designed, and has always been implemented, to enable white Americans to dominate their Black neighbors
        Last edited by seer; 10-28-2021, 11:08 AM.
        Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

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        • #34
          Originally posted by firstfloor View Post

          I did not know the history either, until I listened to Professor Anderson. Obviously it is a very important issue in this age as we move towards equality for all.


          https://www.thedailybeast.com/how-sl...-2nd-amendment
          An interesting take considering that until the 20th century the 2A was unanimously viewed as a right of the people and not the state. Sounds like someone rewrote history a bit to better fit their view.

          I'm always still in trouble again

          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
          "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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          • #35
            Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
            An interesting take considering that until the 20th century the 2A was unanimously viewed as a right of the people and not the state. Sounds like someone rewrote history a bit to better fit their view.
            Think about this statement: Dr. Anderson shows that the Second Amendment was designed, and has always been implemented, to enable white Americans to dominate their Black neighbors.

            That makes no sense - black men or slaves were already being dominated by whites long before the Second Amendmentcame about. The Amendment did not add or take away from that fact.
            Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by seer View Post

              Think about this statement: Dr. Anderson shows that the Second Amendment was designed, and has always been implemented, to enable white Americans to dominate their Black neighbors.

              That makes no sense - black men or slaves were already being dominated by whites long before the Second Amendmentcame about. The Amendment did not add or take away from that fact.
              Yep. And it is gun restrictions and gun control (largely I'm big cities like Chicago and NY where there are large black populations) implemented by liberals, which keep Blacks from owning guns. Not the second amendment. If anyone is trying to dominate Blacks it is the gun control advocates.
              "So when you actually get the virus, you're going to start producing antibodies against multiple pieces of the virus. So, your antibodies are probably better at that point than the vaccination."
              - Pfizer Scientist Chris Croce

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              • #37
                In this extraordinarily important book, Dr. Anderson shows that the Second Amendment was designed, and has always been implemented, to enable white Americans to dominate their Black neighbors.


                I've read enough. Revisionism at its finest, from the woke crowd.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                  An interesting take considering that until the 20th century the 2A was unanimously viewed as a right of the people and not the state. Sounds like someone rewrote history a bit to better fit their view.
                  Just this line alone is spooky: "I did not know the history either, until I listened to Professor Anderson." It sounds very cult-y, relying on an individual to teach a person history.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Ronson View Post
                    In this extraordinarily important book, Dr. Anderson shows that the Second Amendment was designed, and has always been implemented, to enable white Americans to dominate their Black neighbors.


                    I've read enough. Revisionism at its finest, from the woke crowd.
                    Sounds like that 1619 Project nonsense which even the originator of that hypothesis openly admitted that the purpose was not to teach accurate history but to promote a political agenda.
                    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                    Than a fool in the eyes of God


                    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                      Sounds like that 1619 Project nonsense which even the originator of that hypothesis openly admitted that the purpose was not to teach accurate history but to promote a political agenda.
                      I thought of the comparison, but this truly makes the 1916 Project look like serious scholarship.

                      I'm always still in trouble again

                      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        In the south, the militia was used to control the slave population. The wording of the second amendment was designed to ensure that the militia were not impeded in that task.

                        Patrick Henry even argued that southerner’s “property” (slaves) would be lost under the new US Constitution, and the resulting slave uprising would be less than peaceful or tranquil:

                        “In this situation,” Henry said to Madison, “I see a great deal of the property of the people of Virginia in jeopardy, and their peace and tranquility gone.”

                        So Madison, who had (at Jefferson’s insistence) already begun to prepare proposed amendments to the US Constitution, changed his first draft of one that addressed the militia issue to make sure it was unambiguous that the southern states could maintain their slave patrol militias.

                        His first draft for what became the Second Amendment had said: “The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed; a well armed, and well regulated militia being the best security of a free country [emphasis mine]: but no person religiously scrupulous of bearing arms, shall be compelled to render military service in person.”

                        But Henry, Mason and others wanted southern states to preserve their slave-patrol militias independent of the federal government. So Madison changed the word “country” to the word “state,” and redrafted the Second Amendment into today’s form:
                        “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
                        “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
                        “not all there” - you know who you are

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
                          In the south, the militia was used to control the slave population. The wording of the second amendment was designed to ensure that the militia were not impeded in that task.
                          The wording was designed so that the government couldn't impede with the right of the people to keep and bear arms.

                          I'm always still in trouble again

                          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                          "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Ronson View Post
                            In this extraordinarily important book, Dr. Anderson shows that the Second Amendment was designed, and has always been implemented, to enable white Americans to dominate their Black neighbors.


                            I've read enough. Revisionism at its finest, from the woke crowd.
                            Yep she wrote a racist screed of a book called "White Rage" back a few years ago after the Michael Brown 'Hands Up Don't Shoot' hoax/lie in Ferguson that led to burning and riots. Anyone that thinks she has anything of value to offer, let alone anything not tainted by her racist hatred of white people, is braindead.
                            "So when you actually get the virus, you're going to start producing antibodies against multiple pieces of the virus. So, your antibodies are probably better at that point than the vaccination."
                            - Pfizer Scientist Chris Croce

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post

                              Yep she wrote a racist screed of a book called "White Rage" back a few years ago after the Michael Brown 'Hands Up Don't Shoot' hoax/lie in Ferguson that led to burning and riots. Anyone that thinks she has anything of value to offer, let alone anything not tainted by her racist hatred of white people, is braindead.
                              That part!

                              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                firstfloor has bought the book. Clearly, you folks need an education; we will do this together - focusing on the argument connecting slavery to the second amendment. Let us pray for a common understanding of this important history.
                                “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
                                “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
                                “not all there” - you know who you are

                                Comment

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