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  • The second amendment

    This is an extraordinary discussion with historian Carol Anderson concerning the history of the second amendment. Best podcast I have listened to all year.

    https://strictscrutinypodcast.com/po...tally-unequal/

    “The second amendment, as Carol Anderson deftly establishes here, was written in the blood of enslaved black people. Our stalemated gun rights debates have focused on the idea that the second amendment preserves liberty rather than its historic role in denying it. This book does a great deal to change the parameters of that conversation.”
    “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
    “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
    “not all there” - you know who you are

  • #2
    Not going to listen to the podcast so just tell us what does this mean:

    “The second amendment, as Carol Anderson deftly establishes here, was written in the blood of enslaved black people..."
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by seer View Post
      Not going to listen to the podcast so just tell us what does this mean:

      “The second amendment, as Carol Anderson deftly establishes here, was written in the blood of enslaved black people..."
      She is talking about her new book. It is a fascinating history which helps to explain why guns and blacks are such sensitive topics today.

      “In this extraordinarily important book, Dr. Anderson shows that the Second Amendment was designed, and has always been implemented, to enable white Americans to dominate their Black neighbors. In her trademark engaging and unflinching prose, Dr. Anderson traces America’s racist history of gun laws from the 1639 Virginia colony’s prohibition on Africans carrying guns to the recent police murders of Breonna Taylor and Emantic Bradford, Jr., showing how calls for ‘law and order’ have concentrated guns in the hands of white people while defining Black gun ownership as a threat to society. Anderson’s deft scholarship convincingly places the right to use force at the center of American citizenship, and warns that the Second Amendment, as it is currently exercised, guarantees that Black Americans will never be equal.”
      “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
      “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
      “not all there” - you know who you are

      Comment


      • #4
        The genie has long left the bottle with guns in America. Consider just how many are out there now. Banning them now won't do anything other than concentrate them in the hands of those already inclined not to obey the law.
        "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by firstfloor View Post

          She is talking about her new book. It is a fascinating history which helps to explain why guns and blacks are such sensitive topics today.

          “In this extraordinarily important book, Dr. Anderson shows that the Second Amendment was designed, and has always been implemented, to enable white Americans to dominate their Black neighbors. In her trademark engaging and unflinching prose, Dr. Anderson traces America’s racist history of gun laws from the 1639 Virginia colony’s prohibition on Africans carrying guns to the recent police murders of Breonna Taylor and Emantic Bradford, Jr., showing how calls for ‘law and order’ have concentrated guns in the hands of white people while defining Black gun ownership as a threat to society. Anderson’s deft scholarship convincingly places the right to use force at the center of American citizenship, and warns that the Second Amendment, as it is currently exercised, guarantees that Black Americans will never be equal.”
          So, because the amendment wasn't applied equally, the amendment itself is racist. Isn't that like saying that the 1st amendment is racist because racists burned churches?

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
            This is an extraordinary discussion with historian Carol Anderson concerning the history of the second amendment. Best podcast I have listened to all year.

            https://strictscrutinypodcast.com/po...tally-unequal/

            “The second amendment, as Carol Anderson deftly establishes here, was written in the blood of enslaved black people. Our stalemated gun rights debates have focused on the idea that the second amendment preserves liberty rather than its historic role in denying it. This book does a great deal to change the parameters of that conversation.”
            The whole 2A is based somehow on or connected with slavery is perhaps the worst researched load of codswallop that has circulated among the gun grabbers since the hoax orchestrated by Bellesiles around 20 years ago (which the left swallowed hook, line and sinker without question).

            I'm always still in trouble again

            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
            "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by seer View Post
              Not going to listen to the podcast so just tell us what does this mean:

              “The second amendment, as Carol Anderson deftly establishes here, was written in the blood of enslaved black people..."
              It's a popular liberal canard that the Second Amendment was written with the express purpose of allowing armed whites to stop slave revolts, which is, of course, absurd on its face for anybody who knows US history and the purpose for which our Founding Fathers had carried arms into battle.
              Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
              But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
              Than a fool in the eyes of God


              From "Fools Gold" by Petra

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by firstfloor View Post

                She is talking about her new book. It is a fascinating history which helps to explain why guns and blacks are such sensitive topics today.

                “In this extraordinarily important book, Dr. Anderson shows that the Second Amendment was designed, and has always been implemented, to enable white Americans to dominate their Black neighbors. In her trademark engaging and unflinching prose, Dr. Anderson traces America’s racist history of gun laws from the 1639 Virginia colony’s prohibition on Africans carrying guns to the recent police murders of Breonna Taylor and Emantic Bradford, Jr., showing how calls for ‘law and order’ have concentrated guns in the hands of white people while defining Black gun ownership as a threat to society. Anderson’s deft scholarship convincingly places the right to use force at the center of American citizenship, and warns that the Second Amendment, as it is currently exercised, guarantees that Black Americans will never be equal.”
                What is interesting, and historically accurate, is that whites (coincidentally, primarily Democrats) sought to keep guns out of the hands of blacks. They didn't want to face armed resistance when they rode in wearing their sheets to lynch someone. This of course has nothing whatsoever to do with the 2A except to be a flagrant violation of it.

                In recent years, we could still see this mentality in play when the left sought to ban inexpensive firearms (like the so-called Saturday Night Specials), hoping to in that way make firearms prohibitively expensive for the poor to own one.



                I'm always still in trouble again

                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by firstfloor View Post

                  ...deft scholarship convincingly places the right to use force at the center of American citizenship, and warns that the Second Amendment, as it is currently exercised, guarantees that Black Americans will never be equal.

                  How does that follow? What is the logic?
                  Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by seer View Post


                    How does that follow? What is the logic?
                    You're asking firstfloor about LOGIC!?!?!?!?!

                    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      For the sarcastically impaired the following is said in jest

                      By the way, Roy has managed to convince me that Second Amendment protections should not be applied to Hollyweird Liberals!

                      Originally posted by Roy View Post
                      What about all your 'arguments' against gun control and gun-free zones?

                      Blades and petrol are just as dangerous as live ammo.
                      You're not going to get rid of all the live ammo.
                      Do you think 'live ammo free zones' really work?
                      Live ammo free zones keep the live ammo out of the hands of law abiding citizens who may actually be able to stop somebody who is illegally using live ammo
                      Any crew member can get live ammo, legally or otherwise.
                      Seriously, when a conservative looks at "live ammo control", they come at it from a total FANTASY world where they think they can simply make rules and everybody cooperates.
                      "Live ammo free zones" are incredibly bird-brained stupid in that they provide a killing zone where the criminal - or would be criminal - is thrilled to death that nobody else will have live ammo.

                      It's not a live ammo problem, it's a people problem.

                      Feel free to argue against yourself.
                      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                      OK, thinking this over some more, I think you may actually have a valid point.
                      Hollyweird Liberals should never be allowed to have guns. EVER.
                      We should control guns in the hands of liberals, and anywhere liberals gather should be gun-free zones.

                      Thanks, Roy, for bringing me back to reality.


                      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post

                        So, because the amendment wasn't applied equally, the amendment itself is racist. Isn't that like saying that the 1st amendment is racist because racists burned churches?
                        I haven't listened to the podcast, but Anderson's argument is a little more than that. She effectively argues that the 2nd amendment wouldn't even exist if the southern states hadn't seen a need to be able to put down slave revolts. (I don't know enough about history to say whether she's right about that.)

                        Source: https://www.npr.org/transcripts/1002107670


                        ​​​​​​DAVIES: You know, the Second Amendment was crafted after the constitutional convention as part of the Bill of Rights. And it, of course, talks about a right to bear arms. It also deals directly with militias, particularly state militias. How is this an expression of racism in its day?

                        ANDERSON: It was in response to the concerns coming out of the Virginia ratification convention for the Constitution, led by Patrick Henry and George Mason, that a militia that was controlled solely by the federal government would not be there to protect the slave owners from a enslaved uprising. And it was the way that James Madison crafted that language in order to mollify the concerns coming out of Virginia and the anti-Federalists, that they would still have full control over their state militias. And those militias were used in order to quell slave revolts.

                        DAVIES: Right. So the fear was that a Union which was dominated by northern states would simply not see those militias for the same purposes the South did. They would take them for - you know, draft them for other purposes, like from a foreign invasion, and leave the job of guarding against the slave revolt unfilled. So in the end, what happens is the South agrees to join the Union. In - but part of it was that they had an assurance that their own militias would be seen as independent, used for their own purposes, i.e., suppressing slave revolts, right?

                        ANDERSON: Yes. Yes. In that, the Second Amendment really provided the cover, the assurances that Patrick Henry and George Mason needed that the militias would not be controlled by the federal government, but that they would be controlled by the states and at the beck and call of the states to be able to put down these uprisings.

                        © Copyright Original Source



                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Stoic View Post

                          I haven't listened to the podcast, but Anderson's argument is a little more than that. She effectively argues that the 2nd amendment wouldn't even exist if the southern states hadn't seen a need to be able to put down slave revolts. (I don't know enough about history to say whether she's right about that.)

                          Source: https://www.npr.org/transcripts/1002107670


                          ​​​​​​DAVIES: You know, the Second Amendment was crafted after the constitutional convention as part of the Bill of Rights. And it, of course, talks about a right to bear arms. It also deals directly with militias, particularly state militias. How is this an expression of racism in its day?

                          ANDERSON: It was in response to the concerns coming out of the Virginia ratification convention for the Constitution, led by Patrick Henry and George Mason, that a militia that was controlled solely by the federal government would not be there to protect the slave owners from a enslaved uprising. And it was the way that James Madison crafted that language in order to mollify the concerns coming out of Virginia and the anti-Federalists, that they would still have full control over their state militias. And those militias were used in order to quell slave revolts.

                          DAVIES: Right. So the fear was that a Union which was dominated by northern states would simply not see those militias for the same purposes the South did. They would take them for - you know, draft them for other purposes, like from a foreign invasion, and leave the job of guarding against the slave revolt unfilled. So in the end, what happens is the South agrees to join the Union. In - but part of it was that they had an assurance that their own militias would be seen as independent, used for their own purposes, i.e., suppressing slave revolts, right?

                          ANDERSON: Yes. Yes. In that, the Second Amendment really provided the cover, the assurances that Patrick Henry and George Mason needed that the militias would not be controlled by the federal government, but that they would be controlled by the states and at the beck and call of the states to be able to put down these uprisings.

                          © Copyright Original Source


                          Where are the actual quotes from the Founders? Not that the slave thing couldn't have been one of many considerations...

                          Historian Falsely Claims The Second Amendment Was Created To Protect Slavery

                          https://thefederalist.com/2021/06/03...otect-slavery/

                          https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/the-...o-with-slavery
                          Last edited by seer; 10-28-2021, 08:54 AM.
                          Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
                            ...
                            “The second amendment, as Carol Anderson deftly establishes here, was written in the blood of enslaved black people...
                            Kevin_lol.gif
                            That's what
                            - She

                            Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                            - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                            I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                            Stephen R. Donaldson

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                              The whole 2A is based somehow on or connected with slavery is perhaps the worst researched load of codswallop that has circulated among the gun grabbers since the hoax orchestrated by Bellesiles around 20 years ago (which the left swallowed hook, line and sinker without question).
                              I see that Professor Anderson was in discussion also with the excellent Amy Gooodman back in June. Professors of history do not deal in codswallop. They are experts in exactly this sort of thing, and I would encourage you to take them seriously. When they teach, they get their students to look at the original documents. We might need to do the same here.

                              From Goodman’s show transcript:

                              Well, today we’re going to take a deep look at the Second Amendment and its racist roots. We’re joined by Carol Anderson, author of the new book The Second: Race and Guns in a Fatally Unequal America. Professor Anderson details how the Second Amendment was written to empower local militia groups to put down slave revolts and protect plantation owners. She writes the Second Amendment is, quote, “rooted in fear of Black people, to deny them their rights, to keep them from tasting liberty.” Carol Anderson joins us from Atlanta, where she’s professor at Emory University. She’s also the author of One Person, No Vote: How Voter Suppression Is Destroying Our Democracy and White Rage: The Unspoken Truth of Our Racial Divide.
                              “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
                              “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
                              “not all there” - you know who you are

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