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  • Gondwanaland
    replied
    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
    The only place I saw that cited that number also declared that test animals suffer from long term pain and trauma and in the next sentence said animals are killed after the test. Didn't seem like a reliable source

    Didn't look too hard then, I guess..... (not to mention what you stated above is not a pair of statements that is mutually exclusive - sounds a bit more like you just wanted a reason to reject the facts).


    https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/bs...051-story.html


    looks like it's closer to 96 percent, possibly:
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4594046/

    Leave a comment:


  • rogue06
    replied
    Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post

    You mean problems worse than the 90 percent failure rate of animal testing? Bull.
    The only place I saw that cited that number also declared that test animals suffer from long term pain and trauma and in the next sentence said animals are killed after the test. Didn't seem like a reliable source

    Leave a comment:


  • Gondwanaland
    replied
    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
    There are still numerous problems with the other methods but as they improve animal testing gets phased out.
    You mean problems worse than the 90 percent failure rate of animal testing? Bull.

    Leave a comment:


  • rogue06
    replied
    Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post

    That's what should be done (we have zero need for animals in testing), but for most of testing in the US, animals are used (and in many things like approval by the FDA, required).
    There are still numerous problems with the other methods but as they improve animal testing gets phased out.

    Leave a comment:


  • Gondwanaland
    replied
    Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post

    Honestly, I think there has to be at least some element of sociopathic pleasure associated with it.
    Agreed!

    Leave a comment:


  • Gondwanaland
    replied
    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
    When possible, they try to perform these toxicology tests using computer models and biochemical or cell-based (in vitro) systems instead of with animals.
    That's what should be done (we have zero need for animals in testing), but for most of testing in the US, animals are used (and in many things like approval by the FDA, required).

    Leave a comment:


  • rogue06
    replied
    Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post
    Same people complaining about animal experiments are complaining the vaccines haven't been tested enough. I'm curious what they think the vaccines are tested on before being given to humans.
    When possible, they try to perform these toxicology tests using computer models and biochemical or cell-based (in vitro) systems instead of with animals.

    Leave a comment:


  • NorrinRadd
    replied
    Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post



    There's no need for animal testing at all.

    It's utterly ineffective, and absurdly scientifically backward. 90 percent of medicines tested on animals end up working differently in humans, often to the wrong extremes (drugs found unsafe in animals often are effective in humans and those that indicated as safe end up being harmful). You can roll a 10 sided dice and be about as accurate in predicting the safety or efficacy of a medicine We have so many advances in science, from the use of adult stem cells to technology that can model and accurately predict the molecular behavior and interaction of drugs in the body. The only reason we seem to still do this archaic animal testing is traditionalism- a "well we've always done it to make sure things are safe, so we have to keep doing it", despite the reality. (And sorry, there is nothing humane about animal testing, no matter how some might want to fool themselves into believing otherwise)
    Honestly, I think there has to be at least some element of sociopathic pleasure associated with it.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mountain Man
    replied
    Originally posted by seanD View Post

    White Coat Waste Project appears to be a bipartisan organization. You've got to wonder why these series of "releases" are happening now. I mean, why not a year ago or 10 months ago during an admin that was more at odds with Fauci?
    Perhaps because his effectiveness as a spokesman has dramatically waned, and he is starting to hurt the "brand", so the Swamp needs to take him out before the message can be seriously damaged by his association.

    Leave a comment:


  • Gondwanaland
    replied
    Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post
    Same people complaining about animal experiments are complaining the vaccines haven't been tested enough. I'm curious what they think the vaccines are tested on before being given to humans.
    Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

    There's nothing that requires animal testing to be a synonym for animal torture. It can be done humanely and without inflicting undue suffering.
    There's no need for animal testing at all.

    It's utterly ineffective, and absurdly scientifically backward. 90 percent of medicines tested on animals end up working differently in humans, often to the wrong extremes (drugs found unsafe in animals often are effective in humans and those that indicated as safe end up being harmful). You can roll a 10 sided dice and be about as accurate in predicting the safety or efficacy of a medicine We have so many advances in science, from the use of adult stem cells to technology that can model and accurately predict the molecular behavior and interaction of drugs in the body. The only reason we seem to still do this archaic animal testing is traditionalism- a "well we've always done it to make sure things are safe, so we have to keep doing it", despite the reality. (And sorry, there is nothing humane about animal testing, no matter how some might want to fool themselves into believing otherwise)

    Leave a comment:


  • seanD
    replied
    Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

    Another puppy story just emerged:

    Dr. Anthony Fauci’s division of the National Institutes of Health (NIH) is funding an experiment at Kansas State University involving hundreds of ticks feasting on puppies injected with a mutant bacteria, alive.

    The taxpayer watchdog White Coat Waste Project (WCW) obtained the revealing documents through FOIA, showing that the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, led by Fauci, gave the school $536,311 for the project this year.

    The experiment involves injecting beagle puppies with mutant bacteria and subsequently allowing “up to 250 ticks feast on each of the puppies, sucking their blood for up to a week,” according to WCW.

    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2...puppies-alive/

    The research is scheduled to end in 2024.
    White Coat Waste Project appears to be a bipartisan organization. You've got to wonder why these series of "releases" are happening now. I mean, why not a year ago or 10 months ago during an admin that was more at odds with Fauci?

    Leave a comment:


  • Ronson
    replied
    Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post

    Nonsense. I'm easily capable of hating in multiple directions.
    My favorite quote today.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mountain Man
    replied
    Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post
    Same people complaining about animal experiments are complaining the vaccines haven't been tested enough. I'm curious what they think the vaccines are tested on before being given to humans.
    There's nothing that requires animal testing to be a synonym for animal torture. It can be done humanely and without inflicting undue suffering.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mountain Man
    replied
    Originally posted by seanD View Post

    From what I've heard, the puppy story is true, it's just not linked directly to part of the NIH Fauci headed.
    Another puppy story just emerged:

    Dr. Anthony Fauci’s division of the National Institutes of Health (NIH) is funding an experiment at Kansas State University involving hundreds of ticks feasting on puppies injected with a mutant bacteria, alive.

    The taxpayer watchdog White Coat Waste Project (WCW) obtained the revealing documents through FOIA, showing that the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, led by Fauci, gave the school $536,311 for the project this year.

    The experiment involves injecting beagle puppies with mutant bacteria and subsequently allowing “up to 250 ticks feast on each of the puppies, sucking their blood for up to a week,” according to WCW.

    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2...puppies-alive/

    The research is scheduled to end in 2024.

    Leave a comment:


  • NorrinRadd
    replied
    Originally posted by Stoic View Post

    Since a lot of the people who hate Fauci also hate PETA, it puts them in a difficult situation.
    Nonsense. I'm easily capable of hating in multiple directions.

    Leave a comment:

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