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  • #16
    Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post
    Same people complaining about animal experiments are complaining the vaccines haven't been tested enough. I'm curious what they think the vaccines are tested on before being given to humans.
    There's nothing that requires animal testing to be a synonym for animal torture. It can be done humanely and without inflicting undue suffering.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post

      Nonsense. I'm easily capable of hating in multiple directions.
      My favorite quote today.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

        Another puppy story just emerged:

        Dr. Anthony Fauci’s division of the National Institutes of Health (NIH) is funding an experiment at Kansas State University involving hundreds of ticks feasting on puppies injected with a mutant bacteria, alive.

        The taxpayer watchdog White Coat Waste Project (WCW) obtained the revealing documents through FOIA, showing that the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, led by Fauci, gave the school $536,311 for the project this year.

        The experiment involves injecting beagle puppies with mutant bacteria and subsequently allowing “up to 250 ticks feast on each of the puppies, sucking their blood for up to a week,” according to WCW.

        https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2...puppies-alive/

        The research is scheduled to end in 2024.
        White Coat Waste Project appears to be a bipartisan organization. You've got to wonder why these series of "releases" are happening now. I mean, why not a year ago or 10 months ago during an admin that was more at odds with Fauci?
        "What am I doing here?" -- Joe Biden 2021

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post
          Same people complaining about animal experiments are complaining the vaccines haven't been tested enough. I'm curious what they think the vaccines are tested on before being given to humans.
          Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

          There's nothing that requires animal testing to be a synonym for animal torture. It can be done humanely and without inflicting undue suffering.
          There's no need for animal testing at all.

          It's utterly ineffective, and absurdly scientifically backward. 90 percent of medicines tested on animals end up working differently in humans, often to the wrong extremes (drugs found unsafe in animals often are effective in humans and those that indicated as safe end up being harmful). You can roll a 10 sided dice and be about as accurate in predicting the safety or efficacy of a medicine We have so many advances in science, from the use of adult stem cells to technology that can model and accurately predict the molecular behavior and interaction of drugs in the body. The only reason we seem to still do this archaic animal testing is traditionalism- a "well we've always done it to make sure things are safe, so we have to keep doing it", despite the reality. (And sorry, there is nothing humane about animal testing, no matter how some might want to fool themselves into believing otherwise)
          "So when you actually get the virus, you're going to start producing antibodies against multiple pieces of the virus. So, your antibodies are probably better at that point than the vaccination."
          - Pfizer Scientist Chris Croce

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by seanD View Post

            White Coat Waste Project appears to be a bipartisan organization. You've got to wonder why these series of "releases" are happening now. I mean, why not a year ago or 10 months ago during an admin that was more at odds with Fauci?
            Perhaps because his effectiveness as a spokesman has dramatically waned, and he is starting to hurt the "brand", so the Swamp needs to take him out before the message can be seriously damaged by his association.
            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
            Than a fool in the eyes of God


            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post



              There's no need for animal testing at all.

              It's utterly ineffective, and absurdly scientifically backward. 90 percent of medicines tested on animals end up working differently in humans, often to the wrong extremes (drugs found unsafe in animals often are effective in humans and those that indicated as safe end up being harmful). You can roll a 10 sided dice and be about as accurate in predicting the safety or efficacy of a medicine We have so many advances in science, from the use of adult stem cells to technology that can model and accurately predict the molecular behavior and interaction of drugs in the body. The only reason we seem to still do this archaic animal testing is traditionalism- a "well we've always done it to make sure things are safe, so we have to keep doing it", despite the reality. (And sorry, there is nothing humane about animal testing, no matter how some might want to fool themselves into believing otherwise)
              Honestly, I think there has to be at least some element of sociopathic pleasure associated with it.
              Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

              Beige Federalist.

              "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

              Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

              Let's go, Brandon

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post
                Same people complaining about animal experiments are complaining the vaccines haven't been tested enough. I'm curious what they think the vaccines are tested on before being given to humans.
                When possible, they try to perform these toxicology tests using computer models and biochemical or cell-based (in vitro) systems instead of with animals.

                I'm always still in trouble again

                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                  When possible, they try to perform these toxicology tests using computer models and biochemical or cell-based (in vitro) systems instead of with animals.
                  That's what should be done (we have zero need for animals in testing), but for most of testing in the US, animals are used (and in many things like approval by the FDA, required).
                  "So when you actually get the virus, you're going to start producing antibodies against multiple pieces of the virus. So, your antibodies are probably better at that point than the vaccination."
                  - Pfizer Scientist Chris Croce

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post

                    Honestly, I think there has to be at least some element of sociopathic pleasure associated with it.
                    Agreed!
                    "So when you actually get the virus, you're going to start producing antibodies against multiple pieces of the virus. So, your antibodies are probably better at that point than the vaccination."
                    - Pfizer Scientist Chris Croce

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post

                      That's what should be done (we have zero need for animals in testing), but for most of testing in the US, animals are used (and in many things like approval by the FDA, required).
                      There are still numerous problems with the other methods but as they improve animal testing gets phased out.

                      I'm always still in trouble again

                      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                        There are still numerous problems with the other methods but as they improve animal testing gets phased out.
                        You mean problems worse than the 90 percent failure rate of animal testing? Bull.
                        "So when you actually get the virus, you're going to start producing antibodies against multiple pieces of the virus. So, your antibodies are probably better at that point than the vaccination."
                        - Pfizer Scientist Chris Croce

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post

                          You mean problems worse than the 90 percent failure rate of animal testing? Bull.
                          The only place I saw that cited that number also declared that test animals suffer from long term pain and trauma and in the next sentence said animals are killed after the test. Didn't seem like a reliable source

                          I'm always still in trouble again

                          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                          "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                            The only place I saw that cited that number also declared that test animals suffer from long term pain and trauma and in the next sentence said animals are killed after the test. Didn't seem like a reliable source

                            Didn't look too hard then, I guess..... (not to mention what you stated above is not a pair of statements that is mutually exclusive - sounds a bit more like you just wanted a reason to reject the facts).


                            https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/bs...051-story.html


                            looks like it's closer to 96 percent, possibly:
                            https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4594046/

                            "So when you actually get the virus, you're going to start producing antibodies against multiple pieces of the virus. So, your antibodies are probably better at that point than the vaccination."
                            - Pfizer Scientist Chris Croce

                            Comment

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