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Atheists In Alabama No Longer Have To Swear Oath To God To Vote

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  • #46
    Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post

    From the IVP OT Bible Background Commentary:

    "As the second commandment concerned the issue of exercising power over God, the third turns its attention to exercising God’s power over others. This commandment does not refer to blasphemy or foul language. Rather it is intended to prevent the exploitation of the name of Yahweh for magical purposes or hexing. It also continues the concerns of the second commandment in that someone’s name was believed to be intimately connected to that person’s being and essence. The giving of one’s name was an act of favor, trust and, in human terms, vulnerability. Israel was not to attempt to use Yahweh’s name in magical ways to manipulate him. The commandment was also intended to insure that the use of Yahweh’s name in oaths, vows and treaties was taken seriously."

    From the NET Bible notes:

    "The command prohibits use of the name for any idle, frivolous, or insincere purpose (S. R. Driver, Exodus, 196). This would include perjury, pagan incantations, or idle talk. The name is to be treated with reverence and respect because it is the name of the holy God."
    Yup.


    And many other Christians also view swearing oaths on God as a violation of Jesus' words in Matthew 5;

    Again, you have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘Do not break your oath,(AM) but fulfill to the Lord the vows you have made.’(AN)34 But I tell you, do not swear an oath at all:(AO) either by heaven, for it is God’s throne;(AP)35 or by the earth, for it is his footstool; or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the Great King.(AQ)36 And do not swear by your head, for you cannot make even one hair white or black. 37 All you need to say is simply ‘Yes’ or ‘No’;(AR) anything beyond this comes from the evil one.[g](AS)
    "So when you actually get the virus, you're going to start producing antibodies against multiple pieces of the virus. So, your antibodies are probably better at that point than the vaccination."
    - Pfizer Scientist Chris Croce

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post

      Neither. They are inherent.
      Not according to our Founders. And I have no idea what you mean by inherent....
      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by seer View Post

        Not according to our Founders.
        and? You realize your idea of God is nothing like theirs, right?

        And I have no idea what you mean by inherent....
        in·her·ent
        /inˈhirənt,inˈherənt/
        Learn to pronounce
        adjective
        1. existing in something as a permanent, essential, or characteristic attribute.
        "So when you actually get the virus, you're going to start producing antibodies against multiple pieces of the virus. So, your antibodies are probably better at that point than the vaccination."
        - Pfizer Scientist Chris Croce

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post

          From the IVP OT Bible Background Commentary:

          "As the second commandment concerned the issue of exercising power over God, the third turns its attention to exercising God’s power over others. This commandment does not refer to blasphemy or foul language. Rather it is intended to prevent the exploitation of the name of Yahweh for magical purposes or hexing. It also continues the concerns of the second commandment in that someone’s name was believed to be intimately connected to that person’s being and essence. The giving of one’s name was an act of favor, trust and, in human terms, vulnerability. Israel was not to attempt to use Yahweh’s name in magical ways to manipulate him. The commandment was also intended to insure that the use of Yahweh’s name in oaths, vows and treaties was taken seriously."

          From the NET Bible notes:

          "The command prohibits use of the name for any idle, frivolous, or insincere purpose (S. R. Driver, Exodus, 196). This would include perjury, pagan incantations, or idle talk. The name is to be treated with reverence and respect because it is the name of the holy God."
          Bingo. So the phrase "so help me God" as part of an oath does not constitute taking God's name in vain so long as you are being sincere.
          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
          Than a fool in the eyes of God


          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post

            Go find a country without rights and protections where you can institute and practice your theocracy. This one ain't it, son, I didn't fight for and serve this country and put my life on on line so pompous Theocratic twits like you could deny me basic rights because I don't believe in your deity.

            And you want to talk moral depravity, I suggest you and your Christian faith take a damn long look in the mirror with your prevalence of pedophiles and rapists among your leadership.
            Pro tip: a country with strong religious faith and traditions is not a "theocracy". Look, man, we're not talking ancient Israel where prophets heard directly from God and then gave exhortations to the people.
            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
            Than a fool in the eyes of God


            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post

              It is plainly unconstitutional.

              And had you bothered to read, signing the form while lying would make you guilty of perjury..

              I'm not sure why you're throwing such a fit about something being corrected that was plainly unconstitutional and was preventing people from exercising their rights.. but them, rights fall by the wayside when Christians want their religion enshrined in government I guess, so its not that surprising. Get over yourselves - this is a secular country not a theocracy.
              How does an atheist saying the phrase "so help me God" constitute a lie? Would it be a lie if the phrase was "so help me Obi-Wan Kenobi" instead? As far as the atheist is concerned, it's gibberish, literally words without meaning, so what's the problem?

              But, of course, we're talking about the nutballs from the Freedom From Religion Foundation who act like they're going to burst into flames if they encounter even a hint of religion in their daily lives. Y'all need to get over yourselves.
              Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
              But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
              Than a fool in the eyes of God


              From "Fools Gold" by Petra

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                Pro tip: a country with strong religious faith and traditions is not a "theocracy". Look, man, we're not talking ancient Israel where prophets heard directly from God and then gave exhortations to the people.
                No we're talking a country where you want your faith shoved down the throats of others and throw a fit when the SECULAR country's laws are upheld and unconstitutional trash like this is made to change.
                "So when you actually get the virus, you're going to start producing antibodies against multiple pieces of the virus. So, your antibodies are probably better at that point than the vaccination."
                - Pfizer Scientist Chris Croce

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                  How does an atheist saying the phrase "so help me God" constitute a lie? Would it be a lie if the phrase was "so help me Obi-Wan Kenobi" instead? As far as the atheist is concerned, it's gibberish, literally words without meaning, so what's the problem?

                  But, of course, we're talking about the nutballs from the Freedom From Religion Foundation who act like they're going to burst into flames if they encounter even a hint of religion in their daily lives. Y'all need to get over yourselves.
                  Yawn. Keep on crying about them getting something rightly changed that violated other people's rights.
                  "So when you actually get the virus, you're going to start producing antibodies against multiple pieces of the virus. So, your antibodies are probably better at that point than the vaccination."
                  - Pfizer Scientist Chris Croce

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post
                    No we're talking a country where you want your faith shoved down the throats of others and throw a fit when the SECULAR country's laws are upheld and unconstitutional trash like this is made to change.
                    Are all atheists such pantywaists? The phrase "so help me God" on a piece of paper you're asked to sign could hardly be considered having religion shoved down your throat

                    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                    Than a fool in the eyes of God


                    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                      Are all atheists such pantywaists? The phrase "so help me God" on a piece of paper you're asked to sign could hardly be considered having religion shoved down your throat
                      I should not have to leap through your petty religious beliefs and is beliefs and hoops in order to exercise one of my rights, and we both know that if someone was requiring you to swear an oath to Allah to exercise a right, you would be defecating bricks
                      Last edited by Gondwanaland; 10-25-2021, 07:48 PM.
                      "So when you actually get the virus, you're going to start producing antibodies against multiple pieces of the virus. So, your antibodies are probably better at that point than the vaccination."
                      - Pfizer Scientist Chris Croce

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                        Enforcement is a separate issue. IIRC, several states still have laws making atheists ineligible for elected office on the books (IIRC it was in some state constitutions as well). It goes back to having so %#@$# many laws (see my post concerning clotheslines and carrying ice cream cones).
                        They may be technically on the books, but they've been declared unconstitutional and therefore unenforceable by the Supreme Court in Torcaso v. Watkins. If something's declared unconstitutional, states often don't bother repealing them because they're effectively dead anyway.

                        Sorta like how various states had their state constitutions criminalize interracial marriage. When the Supreme Court declared that unconstitutional in Loving v. Virginia, those things were still in the constitution--they just couldn't be enforced. (various states did later repeal those sections from their constitution, but at that point it's a formality)

                        Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                        Bingo. So the phrase "so help me God" as part of an oath does not constitute taking God's name in vain so long as you are being sincere.
                        Even if it's bad exegesis, that's a bit irrelevant here. The point is they believe it violates their religion. Whether they're right or wrong in that is a separate issue on the question of whether having to make such an oath violates their religious beliefs.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by seer View Post

                          Pray to Jesus, repent - then you will understand....
                          Being sixty years an atheist (fifty of them consciously), I'm afraid you'll have to do better than that. Frankly, I don't even understand your words. At least not in the context you seem to use them.

                          Perhaps try using your own words, rather that your pastor's usual clichés, to explain why the removal of a narrow religious oath from a universal, constitutionally guaranteed right is sending your country to hell.
                          When inventing a god, it is imperative to claim that it's; invisible, inaudible and imperceptible in every way. Otherwise - when it appears to no one, is silent and does nothing - intelligent people are liable to become sceptical.
                          - Anonymous

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post
                            yes, which is why they were quick to change it once a federal suit was filed, because they knew they'd lose that challenge
                            Well that makes sense from their point of view but how long had that requirement been on the statute as it were?

                            Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post
                            No one has challenged it in the past.
                            Really? I wonder why. There must be non-Christians and/or atheists in Alabama. Or was it silence premised on a fear of social opprobrium - or worse?


                            "It ain't necessarily so
                            The things that you're liable
                            To read in the Bible
                            It ain't necessarily so
                            ."

                            Sportin' Life
                            Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post

                              No, and the 14th Amendment made explicit that the protections outlined in the U.S. Constitution could not be overridden by any of the States.

                              OTOH, the 10th Amendment specifies that any power not explicitly granted to the U.S. government by the Constitution is instead held by the States or the people. (But this one has been largely vitiated by SCOTUS rulings over the centuries.)

                              Prior to the 14th Amendment, due to the narrow phrasing of the First Amendment, it would have been technically permissible in terms of the Constitution to have laws such as the one in question, or even official State churches.
                              Thank you.
                              "It ain't necessarily so
                              The things that you're liable
                              To read in the Bible
                              It ain't necessarily so
                              ."

                              Sportin' Life
                              Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                                The U.S. Constitution is the highest law of the land.
                                That is what I understood.

                                Hence, as Gondwanaland noted, once a legal challenge was brought the legislation had to be removed.

                                "It ain't necessarily so
                                The things that you're liable
                                To read in the Bible
                                It ain't necessarily so
                                ."

                                Sportin' Life
                                Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                                Comment

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