Originally posted by rogue06
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Hypocrisy and prurience
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1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
.⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostLikely, some if not many of those documents have been saved and are sitting in attics or even museum/library storage areas where they go unexamined due to lack of personnel. Every so often you hear about an interesting discovery made by some undergrad shifting through old records.
However, other documents do indeed come to light, often quite by chance."It ain't necessarily so
The things that you're liable
To read in the Bible
It ain't necessarily so."
Sportin' Life
Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin
Comment
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Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
An unlikely scenario insofar as the private papers of Queen Victoria are concerned.
However, other documents do indeed come to light, often quite by chance.
Sadly Victoria’s journals were expurgated by her youngest daughter Princess Beatrice, who was the Queen’s literary executor and, in the words of Wilson, ‘one of the most appalling people in history’.
The reason for this royal vandalism was voiced by the present Queen in the 1992 documentary Elizabeth R when she was seen showing her great-great-grandmother’s journal to the then Home Secretary, Kenneth Baker. ‘This is her diary, which was unfortunately re-written by Princess Beatrice. She thought her mother’s diaries were too frank and so she destroyed them.’
Also excised from history are the 300 letters to Alexander Profeit, the estate manager or ‘factor’ at Balmoral, concerning her favourite servant John Brown – with whom it’s been suggested she had an affair. Described as ‘most compromising’ by Victoria’s doctor James Reid, they had to be bought from Profeit’s son George who was threatening to blackmail the Queen’s successor Edward VII in 1904. They were incinerated as soon as they were returned to royal hands.
I'm have no idea why that appellation should have been ascribed to Beatrice - might be worth a dekko.1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
.⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Comment
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Originally posted by tabibito View Post
The basic information can be found here
Sadly Victoria’s journals were expurgated by her youngest daughter Princess Beatrice, who was the Queen’s literary executor and, in the words of Wilson, ‘one of the most appalling people in history’.
The reason for this royal vandalism was voiced by the present Queen in the 1992 documentary Elizabeth R when she was seen showing her great-great-grandmother’s journal to the then Home Secretary, Kenneth Baker. ‘This is her diary, which was unfortunately re-written by Princess Beatrice. She thought her mother’s diaries were too frank and so she destroyed them.’
Also excised from history are the 300 letters to Alexander Profeit, the estate manager or ‘factor’ at Balmoral, concerning her favourite servant John Brown – with whom it’s been suggested she had an affair. Described as ‘most compromising’ by Victoria’s doctor James Reid, they had to be bought from Profeit’s son George who was threatening to blackmail the Queen’s successor Edward VII in 1904. They were incinerated as soon as they were returned to royal hands.
I'm have no idea why that appellation should have been ascribed to Beatrice - might be worth a dekko.
This site reviews Wilson's book on Victoria https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/...s-found-plenty
And if you can get this Youtube video in your country you might find A N Wilson's documentary on her letter-writing interesting https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bO7yjvoyKag
I did watch a series about Victoria's relationship with her children and that suggested she was not the best of mothers. The documentaries presented her as often being fixated on her own emotional suffering and rarely seeming to consider that her children might also be experiencing emotional problems or have issues. This particularly manifested itself in some of her letters to her eldest daughter, Victoria, mother of the future Wilhelm II. Vicky's difficult labour [which led to the permanent damaging of the baby's arm] was as nothing to what Victoria had suffered. Likewise she was sometimes less than sympathetic to Vicky when her husband Friedrich was dying of throat cancer, adversely comparing Vicky's grief to her own grief at the death of her beloved Albert. Her treatment of her son Leopold comes across as somewhat unhealthy. She refused him permission to go to university, constantly trying to infantilise him because of his haemophilia and although she did finally permit him to continue his studies, she has also given the young prince into the care of John Brown's brother, Archie, who was, at times, physically abusive towards the boy. When her other children spoke to her of this she dismissed their complaints as being nothing more than their dislike of the Brown family.
One daughter, I think it was Louise, was quite radical, she became an artist and supported women's suffrage, but Beatrice was kept permanently at Victoria' side and again infantilised to some extent, and even after she married her mother insisted that she and her husband continued to live with her.
It would appear that her lonely childhood and the death of her husband had a profound emotional impact on Victoria's personality and of course Dr Freud was not offering his services in the 1860s!"It ain't necessarily so
The things that you're liable
To read in the Bible
It ain't necessarily so."
Sportin' Life
Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin
Comment
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Originally posted by Hypatia_AlexandriaAnd if you can get this Youtube video in your country you might find A N Wilson's documentary on her letter-writing interesting https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bO7yjvoyKag1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
.⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Comment
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Originally posted by tabibito View Post
An interesting documentary."It ain't necessarily so
The things that you're liable
To read in the Bible
It ain't necessarily so."
Sportin' Life
Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin
Comment
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Originally posted by tabibito View Post
An interesting documentary.
Having just watched episode 2 I think I can understand why Wilson made that comment about Beatrice as an "appalling woman". In many respects she and the rest of Victoria's brood epitomise the title of this thread - hypocrisy and prurience.
He points out at the end of the episode that it was her children who expunged so much of Victoria's real life and personality by the destruction of her correspondence concerning John Brown and Mohammed Abdul Karim [who was deported after she died] and the editing of her diaries. He also comments that the attempt to remove all trace of Brown by destroying such evidence [including images and statues of him] simply ignites further curiosity about the man and his friendship with Victoria.
Destroying an archive of that magnitude is pure vandalism and Beatrice [and the rest of the family] are justly condemned by history.
His comments on her burial request are fascinating. She was to be buried with [among other things] Albert's dressing gown, locks of hair from various [great] grandchildren and to be clasping a photograph of Brown. As Wilson notes it is strange to think when passing Frogmore that she is lying there with all that in her coffin."It ain't necessarily so
The things that you're liable
To read in the Bible
It ain't necessarily so."
Sportin' Life
Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin
Comment
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Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
Could you cite these "pretty much every account"?
I suspect Victoria was not as prim as her public personal suggested. She and Albert had some quite "raunchy" artwork in their bedrooms. This is also the woman who on being told she should wait a while before embarking on another pregnancy is reported to have replied "What? No more fun in bed?" Or words to that effect.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
Comment
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I should note that David isn't the only work by Michelangelo that was censored. Right after his death, his "Last Judgment" which covers the entire altar wall of the Sistine Chapel, had the nude figures in it given strategically placed bits of draped cloth painted on them
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
Comment
-
Originally posted by rogue06 View PostIt could very well be that Victoria may have played the role of being properly offended when she really wasn't.1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
.⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Comment
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostIt could very well be that Victoria may have played the role of being properly offended when she really wasn't."It ain't necessarily so
The things that you're liable
To read in the Bible
It ain't necessarily so."
Sportin' Life
Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin
Comment
-
Originally posted by tabibito View Post
The possibility cannot be denied. It is more likely that someone (possibly the curator of the museum) put words in her mouth."It ain't necessarily so
The things that you're liable
To read in the Bible
It ain't necessarily so."
Sportin' Life
Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin
Comment
-
Originally posted by rogue06 View PostI should note that David isn't the only work by Michelangelo that was censored. Right after his death, his "Last Judgment" which covers the entire altar wall of the Sistine Chapel, had the nude figures in it given strategically placed bits of draped cloth painted on them
Below is an NYT article on the recently discovered version of his Risen Christ:
WARNING BOTH LINKS CONTAIN IMAGE OF NUDE MALE FIGURE.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/21/a...en-christ.html sans loincloth.
And there is also the restored Expulsion from Eden by Masaccio, with the later modesty fig leaves removed.
https://image.slideserve.com/1214198...-of-eden-l.jpg
"It ain't necessarily so
The things that you're liable
To read in the Bible
It ain't necessarily so."
Sportin' Life
Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin
Comment
-
Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
I am still waiting for you to cite what you described as "pretty much every account"
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
Comment
-
Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
Or that it is apocryphal.
Rogue's "pretty much every account" can be accepted - I have not encountered any account that does not include the reference, though never without indications that the claim is an unsubstantiated rumour.1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
.⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Comment
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