Announcement

Collapse

Civics 101 Guidelines

Want to argue about politics? Healthcare reform? Taxes? Governments? You've come to the right place!

Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
See more
See less

Covid vaccines effectiveness and boosters

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by TheLurch View Post
    If you really want me to, I could probably hunt down the original submissions to the FDA. But at this point, it's kind of irrelevant - we now have data on far larger populations than were enrolled in the trials. The recent CDC document tracks hundreds of thousands of people.
    I believe the number of deaths in the original trial was too low to draw any conclusions about how well the vaccines protected against mortality.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by TheLurch View Post
      If you really want me to, I could probably hunt down the original submissions to the FDA. But at this point, it's kind of irrelevant - we now have data on far larger populations than were enrolled in the trials. The recent CDC document tracks hundreds of thousands of people.
      Okay, thanks. So basically, you're saying that the claims it made about the trials, even assuming it was accurately presented, is out of date at this point and isn't something to base an argument on?

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Terraceth View Post
        Okay, thanks. So basically, you're saying that the claims it made about the trials, even assuming it was accurately presented, is out of date at this point and isn't something to base an argument on?
        The significance of the trial data is that it exposes the fact that both Pfizer and the FDA knew from the beginning how dangerous the vaccines really are. But they weren't going to let a little thing like public safety stand between them and record profits.
        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
        Than a fool in the eyes of God


        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

        Comment


        • Originally posted by TheLurch View Post
          Someone DMed me the link to it and asked me to read it.

          It's terrible..
          Thanks for confirming what I suspected.
          Last edited by Roy; 01-26-2022, 06:32 AM.
          Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

          MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
          MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

          seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Ignorant Roy View Post
            Thanks for confirming what I suspected my biases.
            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
            Than a fool in the eyes of God


            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

            Comment


            • Would you mind addressing one point in the article I was especially wondering about? Specifically, its citation of the number of deaths among the placebo and vaccinated groups in the vaccine studies in which it says that the number of deaths among the two groups were so similar that it demonstrates the vaccines do not confer protection against mortality and the data indicates there might in fact be higher mortality among the unvaccinated group. This is discussed primarily early on in the article--it's in the general area of the first chart image (third image overall)--and also the fourth section, entitled "Evidence from the vaccine trials themselves."
              Originally posted by Stoic View Post
              I believe the number of deaths in the original trial was too low to draw any conclusions about how well the vaccines protected against mortality.
              That's correct. The Pfizer/BioNTech study reported 6 deaths during the study; 2 in the vaccinated group and 4 in the control group. That's not enough to draw any significant conclusion. If definitely isn't enough that it "demonstrates the vaccines do not confer protection against mortality". Anyone claiming those numbers demonstrate anything about the vaccine is incompetent or dishonest.

              Source: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/997584/COVID-19_mRNA_Vaccine_BNT162b2__UKPAR___PFIZER_BIONTECH_ext_of_indication_11.6.2021.pdf

              Two deaths were reported in participants that received BNT162b2 in Phase 2/3 of study c4591001; narratives were provided. A participant died 3 days after Dose 1; the provisional cause of death was atherosclerotic disease. A participant experienced cardiac arrest 60 days after Dose 2 and died 3 days later. There were 4 deaths in participants that received placebo in Phase 2/3. There were no deaths during study BNT162-01 or phase 1 of study c4591001.

              © Copyright Original Source

              Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

              MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
              MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

              seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Stoic View Post

                I believe the number of deaths in the original trial was too low to draw any conclusions about how well the vaccines protected against mortality.
                Yeah, I read them when they came out, but that was over a year ago, and I've read a lot of similar data since, so the details are long since gone from my memory.

                Originally posted by Terraceth View Post
                Okay, thanks. So basically, you're saying that the claims it made about the trials, even assuming it was accurately presented, is out of date at this point and isn't something to base an argument on?
                Right - if you're making the argument that the FDA leapt too soon, then it's relevant to look at the data that the FDA had when it made its decision. But that's not the argument being made here. Here, the argument is that the vaccines are dangerous and ineffective. And for that, you need to be looking at the best data we have available. And that's no longer the clinical trial data.

                The only reason to focus on the clinical trial data is rhetorical, not scientific.

                EDITED TO ADD: I see Roy's memory is better than mine.
                "Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from trolling."

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
                  Just got this from a former work mate:

                  Hubby got covid and brought it home to me in November (daughter showed no symptoms and her and I tested negative). 2 weeks later when it should have been gone, my oxygen levels went down to 78, I passed out and started seizing. (1st week of December) he called ambo I was at JW {Local hospital near us} for 5 days (3 days in ER, no rooms). made it thru praise HIM!!! Still on oxygen, Advair, and seeing pulmonary doctor.


                  She was fully vaxxed.
                  It is well known that the vaccines do not offer 100% protection. It is also well known that the vaccinated are a very small part of the hospitalized and critical population. So they work, but not perfectly. That means some people will get sick and some will even die even if they are vaccinated. But the simple facts are, the percentage of people getting seriously ill and the percentage of people dying in the vaccinated population is significantly lower than in the unvaccinated population.

                  Out of curiousity - the general trend of this thread is to try to say the vaccines are ineffective or dangerous. Was your comment orthoganal to that, or was it in support of that trend?


                  My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                  If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                  This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                  Comment




                  • Source: Over 66 percent of Omicron cases are reinfections, study shows


                    More than two-thirds of cases of the Omicron variant of COVID-19 are among people who have been reinfected with the virus, a new study said Wednesday.

                    Imperial College London researchers reported that around 3,582 people — or about 66% of participants in the study — who tested positive in January had already been infected with the virus, CNBC reported.

                    An additional 7.5% of the infected participants said they believed they had previously had the virus but did not confirm that with a test.

                    The study looked at more than 100,000 PCR tests that were collected across England between Jan. 5 and Jan. 20.

                    The study’s authors said in a paper released Wednesday that the Omicron variant has hit England at “unprecedented levels” and has nearly replaced Delta as the country’s most prominent variant, CNBC reported.

                    The study comes as officials announced that mask-wearing will no longer be mandated and the public will no longer be advised to work from home as of Thursday in England.

                    Health officials said last month that roughly half of the Omicron cases in the UK were among the fully vaccinated.

                    Almost 85% of the country’s eligible population is fully vaccinated and 64% have gotten a booster shot, CNBC reported.

                    In December, UK health officials also estimated that the risk of reinfection with the Omicron variant was about 5.4 times greater than with Delta.

                    Omicron is a mutated version of COVID-19 that has been identified in over 170 countries, CNBC reported. World Health Organization officials reported Monday that since the variant was identified nine weeks ago, over 80 million virus cases have been reported to the agency.

                    The UK reported 94,326 new COVID-19 cases on Tuesday, CNBC reported. Infection totals peaked in late December when 246,415 positive tests were recorded in one day.



                    Source

                    © Copyright Original Source


                    That study appears to have been conducted in Britain but I suspect that numbers on the side of the pond are relatively close.


                    I'm always still in trouble again

                    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                    "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post


                      Source: Over 66 percent of Omicron cases are reinfections, study shows


                      More than two-thirds of cases of the Omicron variant of COVID-19 are among people who have been reinfected with the virus, a new study said Wednesday.

                      Imperial College London researchers reported that around 3,582 people — or about 66% of participants in the study — who tested positive in January had already been infected with the virus, CNBC reported.

                      An additional 7.5% of the infected participants said they believed they had previously had the virus but did not confirm that with a test.

                      The study looked at more than 100,000 PCR tests that were collected across England between Jan. 5 and Jan. 20.

                      The study’s authors said in a paper released Wednesday that the Omicron variant has hit England at “unprecedented levels” and has nearly replaced Delta as the country’s most prominent variant, CNBC reported.

                      The study comes as officials announced that mask-wearing will no longer be mandated and the public will no longer be advised to work from home as of Thursday in England.

                      Health officials said last month that roughly half of the Omicron cases in the UK were among the fully vaccinated.

                      Almost 85% of the country’s eligible population is fully vaccinated and 64% have gotten a booster shot, CNBC reported.

                      In December, UK health officials also estimated that the risk of reinfection with the Omicron variant was about 5.4 times greater than with Delta.

                      Omicron is a mutated version of COVID-19 that has been identified in over 170 countries, CNBC reported. World Health Organization officials reported Monday that since the variant was identified nine weeks ago, over 80 million virus cases have been reported to the agency.

                      The UK reported 94,326 new COVID-19 cases on Tuesday, CNBC reported. Infection totals peaked in late December when 246,415 positive tests were recorded in one day.



                      Source

                      © Copyright Original Source


                      That study appears to have been conducted in Britain but I suspect that numbers on the side of the pond are relatively close.


                      If someone who had covid-19 within the last few months got randomly selected, and decided to participate, they could show up as a reinfection even though they may not be currently infected.


                      From the study itself,

                      "The REal-time Assessment of Community Transmission-1 (REACT-1) study has been characterising the transmission of the SARS-CoV-2 virus using RT-PCR test results from self-administered throat and nose swabs from randomly-selected participants in England at ages 5 years and over, approximately monthly since May 2020."


                      Among the 3,582 swab-positive individuals reporting whether or not they had had previous COVID-19, 2,315 (64.6%) reported confirmed previous COVID-19 and 267 (7.5%) reported suspected previous COVID-19.


                      "Although we cannot yet calculate a definitive response rate for round 17 (as the data are not yet complete), it is similar to that observed in round 16 (in which 12.1% of those invited took part and returned swabs that produced valid test results)."


                      "Our results on reported previous COVID-19 are based on self-reported data and therefore it is uncertain what proportion of these are reinfections or recent infections picked up due to the sensitivity of PCR testing."


                      Comment


                      • NEW (Scottish) GOVERNMENT DATA SHOWS “VAX-FREE” LESS LIKELY TO GET COVID.

                        Data released by the Scottish government show people who have been vaccinated with two or three doses of the COVID-19 mRNA vaccines are more likely to become infected, be hospitalized or die than people who are unvaccinated.​

                        The Public Health Scotland data from the past four weeks showed a rate of infection of 866 per 100,000 for the double vaccinated and 481 per 100,000 for the boosted, or triple vaccinated, while the unvaccinated had a rate of infection of 413 per 100,000.

                        The death rate of those who have had two shots is about 12, per 100,0000 which is more than 50% higher than the rate for the unvaccinated.​

                        Earlier this month, the European Union’s top health agency warned that getting boosted every four months could harm the immune system’s ability to fight off the disease. The European medicines Agency advised countries instead to mirror the seasonal influenza vaccination strategy tied to the onset of the cold season.


                        More at link.
                        Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

                        Beige Federalist.

                        Nationalist Christian.

                        "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

                        Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

                        Proud member of the this space left blank community.

                        Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.

                        Justice for Ashli Babbitt!

                        Justice for Matthew Perna!

                        Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post
                          NEW (Scottish) GOVERNMENT DATA SHOWS “VAX-FREE” LESS LIKELY TO GET COVID.

                          Data released by the Scottish government show people who have been vaccinated with two or three doses of the COVID-19 mRNA vaccines are more likely to become infected, be hospitalized or die than people who are unvaccinated.​

                          The Public Health Scotland data from the past four weeks showed a rate of infection of 866 per 100,000 for the double vaccinated and 481 per 100,000 for the boosted, or triple vaccinated, while the unvaccinated had a rate of infection of 413 per 100,000.

                          The death rate of those who have had two shots is about 12, per 100,0000 which is more than 50% higher than the rate for the unvaccinated.​

                          Earlier this month, the European Union’s top health agency warned that getting boosted every four months could harm the immune system’s ability to fight off the disease. The European medicines Agency advised countries instead to mirror the seasonal influenza vaccination strategy tied to the onset of the cold season.


                          More at link.
                          It needs to be age-adjusted. Age adjusting the data shows ​​​​​the vaxx is helping against omicron but not as much as against delta.

                          So a lot of elderly people are catching it inspite of their vaccinations.
                          "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                          "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                          "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                          Comment


                          • I wish emergency use authorization was given now for Pfizer's new omicron vaccine that's in phase 1 trials currently. I'd personally be willing to pay $1000 to get a shot of that today.
                            "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                            "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                            "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post
                              NEW (Scottish) GOVERNMENT DATA SHOWS “VAX-FREE” LESS LIKELY TO GET COVID.

                              Data released by the Scottish government show people who have been vaccinated with two or three doses of the COVID-19 mRNA vaccines are more likely to become infected, be hospitalized or die than people who are unvaccinated.​

                              The Public Health Scotland data from the past four weeks showed a rate of infection of 866 per 100,000 for the double vaccinated and 481 per 100,000 for the boosted, or triple vaccinated, while the unvaccinated had a rate of infection of 413 per 100,000.

                              The death rate of those who have had two shots is about 12, per 100,0000 which is more than 50% higher than the rate for the unvaccinated.​

                              Earlier this month, the European Union’s top health agency warned that getting boosted every four months could harm the immune system’s ability to fight off the disease. The European medicines Agency advised countries instead to mirror the seasonal influenza vaccination strategy tied to the onset of the cold season.


                              More at link.
                              A naive look at raw statistics can lead you to incorrect conclusions. We rely on scientific studies to help eliminate biases, such as the ones discussed below.

                              Source: https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/19859461.covid-scotland-death-rate-25-times-higher-double-jabbed-boosted/


                              ​​​​​​However, PHS said it is likely that the size of the unvaccinated population is being overestimated - skewing the case rate downwards - because GP records are used to count this population.

                              Unlike those given first, second and third doses - where vaccination records can be used to accurately calculate the number of people in each group - the unvaccinated population is gauged based on people registered with a GP practice in Scotland.

                              However, PHS said this can be misleading if people have left Scotland, but not notified their GP.

                              ​​​​​​In addition, PHS said the case rate data does not adjust for "potential biases" such as prior infection, co-morbidities, socio-economic status, and time since vaccination, or "systematic differences" between the vaccinated and unvaccinated groups, such as behaviour, which "become more evident" as the vast majority of the population is vaccinated.

                              The report adds: "For example, people who are vaccinated may be more likely to follow other government guidance such as regular testing and reporting for Covid-19, which makes them more likely to be identified as a case than unvaccinated people, resulting in higher case rates in the vaccinated population."

                              © Copyright Original Source

                              Comment


                              • "Israel is overrun with Covid. The vaccines have failed. The experiment must stop."

                                Judged SOLELY on the basis of the last year’s efficacy data, the mRNA vaccines are a failed product and should be withdrawn. Any future mRNA vaccines - against the Omicron variant or any other target- need to be tested for safety and efficacy in large-scale clinical trial for YEARS. Not months, years. This kind of billion-person experiment must never happen again.

                                It’s over, okay? We didn’t get the Hollywood ending.

                                Science didn’t win.

                                Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

                                Beige Federalist.

                                Nationalist Christian.

                                "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

                                Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

                                Proud member of the this space left blank community.

                                Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.

                                Justice for Ashli Babbitt!

                                Justice for Matthew Perna!

                                Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!

                                Comment

                                Related Threads

                                Collapse

                                Topics Statistics Last Post
                                Started by little_monkey, Yesterday, 04:19 PM
                                6 responses
                                48 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post whag
                                by whag
                                 
                                Started by whag, 03-26-2024, 04:38 PM
                                42 responses
                                234 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post whag
                                by whag
                                 
                                Started by rogue06, 03-26-2024, 11:45 AM
                                24 responses
                                104 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Ronson
                                by Ronson
                                 
                                Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 03-26-2024, 09:21 AM
                                33 responses
                                189 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Roy
                                by Roy
                                 
                                Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 03-26-2024, 08:34 AM
                                73 responses
                                311 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Hypatia_Alexandria  
                                Working...
                                X