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  • Covid vaccines effectiveness and boosters

    Interesting article explaining why some vaccines require boosters while others don't and on the effectiveness of the Chicom coronaviruses in general

    Source: If the chickenpox vaccine lasts 20 years, why not the COVID-19 shot?


    Will the third booster shot be our last? Israeli doctors explain the science behind it.

    The measles vaccine lasts forever. The chickenpox vaccine is good for as long as 20 years. The DTaP (diphtheria, tetanus and pertussis) requires five doses before the age of seven, but then it offers protection for at least 10 years.

    So why do we assume that we will have to get a shot of the coronavirus vaccine every six months or year?

    There are reasons why individuals might need a COVID booster at least every year, but also some reasons why the third shot may, in fact, be our last.

    The first reason we might need a fourth (or fifth or sixth) shot is because of the decay of our own antibodies and immune response, explained Dr. Oren Kobiler of Tel Aviv University’s Sackler Faculty of Medicine.

    Recent studies have shown that the Pfizer coronavirus vaccine wanes after four to six months, making individuals more prone to infection. A booster dose does exactly what its name implies: It boosts our antibodies, offering greater protection against the virus.

    Another reason we might need repeated shots is due to variants, or what is known in scientific terms as “antigenic drift.” If the virus is always changing, then our vaccines will need to be updated to protect against the latest threat.

    Some viruses, such as polio, measles and mumps, do not change a lot, hence the vaccines continue to be effective. In contrast, influenza changes every year, so people receive a new flu vaccine to protect against it.

    “The vaccine is the protection,” said Prof. Meital Gal Tanamy, head of the Molecular Virology Lab at Bar-Ilan University’s Faculty of Medicine. “The period of protection is dependent on the vaccine and the virus.”

    “A variant is a virus that contains mutations, and if it has evolutionary advantages, it can take over in the population,” she said, adding that this is what happened with the Delta variant. “The other question is how effective against these variants the vaccines we have will be.”

    Coronavirus is an RNA virus, which means it changes. However, its mutation rate is three to four times less compared with the influenza virus, which is good news for vaccine makers, Gal Tanamy said.

    Another thing to consider is how good the immune response really is that is induced by the vaccine.

    “If the purpose of a vaccine is to prevent infection, then it needs to lead to the creation of a good memory cell response – B cells and T cells that are cells induced by the vaccine but that stay in our body,” Gal Tanamy said. “If a person becomes infected, these cells are activated and can create a fast and good response against the pathogen, which is why we do not get sick if we are vaccinated.”

    The question then is whether or not we get a good memory response with the vaccines that we have.

    Recent papers have shown that even as neutralizing antibodies wane, the vaccine still has a good memory response.

    So, why take the booster then?

    Because, Kobiler said, the booster is not only stopping serious disease, it is also aimed at halting infection – a high bar for a vaccine.

    “Most vaccines are used to prevent serious infection and not any infection,” he said. “Here we are asking the vaccine to prevent any and all disease, to prevent the infection from spreading.

    “Most people in the world don’t need the booster shot to prevent them from getting serious disease, but they do need it to prevent them from getting corona and spreading it to other people.”

    Gal Tanamy stressed that even people with two shots are “still very much protected from severe disease” because of their memory cells.

    But there are also reasons to believe that this third shot could be the last.

    Many childhood vaccines are taken three times and no more, such as the polio vaccine and the HPV vaccine against the papilloma virus. The latter, for example, if taken after the age of 15, needs three doses, one month and six months after the first dose, and then it lasts a lifetime, as far as scientists currently know.

    Another idea is that the administration regime could be altered to make the vaccines more effective.

    Several recent papers suggest, for example, that the Pfizer vaccine creates a more robust immunity if the first and second shots are given eight or even 12 weeks apart instead of three, Kobiler said.

    “Now, with the third dose being given at six months [after the second dose], I am not sure we will ever need another booster,” he said.

    There are also scientists who believe that like previous coronaviruses, the pandemic will eventually become endemic and less severe, and the need to vaccinate will soon become unnecessary, Kobiler added.

    “I am more inclined to that point of view because of what we know of other coronaviruses,” he said. “Usually, they are caught at a young age and cause very mild disease. And those that are exposed to them at a young age tend not to suffer from severe disease when they are older.”

    Finally, each booster sparks a better immune response, both in terms of quantity and quality of antibodies than the one before, Gal Tanamy said. The immune response becomes “more specific” and the antibodies “more efficient,” she said.

    So, will we or won’t we need to vaccinate against COVID for life?

    “Only time will tell,” Kobiler said.


    Source

    © Copyright Original Source





    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
    "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

  • #2
    “The vaccine is the protection,” said Prof. Meital Gal Tanamy...

    Interesting. Not your immune system, the vaccine.

    There are also reports that anybody who has gotten the "The Jab" already must get a booster, because once the "vaccine" loses effectiveness, it leaves your immune system in a weakened state making you even more susceptible to the China flu (and possibly other diseases) than you were before.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
      “The vaccine is the protection,” said Prof. Meital Gal Tanamy...

      Interesting. Not your immune system, the vaccine.

      There are also reports that anybody who has gotten the "The Jab" already must get a booster, because once the "vaccine" loses effectiveness, it leaves your immune system in a weakened state making you even more susceptible to the China flu (and possibly other diseases) than you were before.
      I haven't seen anything remotely like that.

      I'm always still in trouble again

      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
        I haven't seen anything remotely like that.
        Obviously it's not being reported by the mainstream media which has been intent on selling the "safe and effective" narrative, but the whole reason we're even talking about boosters for the China flu vaccines is because we know for a fact that they don't offer lasting protection (if they offer any protection at all) and in fact lose their effectiveness extraordinarily quickly. It's interesting to see this article try to sell the "three jabs, and that's it" line, which sounds suspiciously like "two weeks to flatten the curve". How long before someone else comes along and says, "Did we say only three? Oh, no, we meant four. No, five. Okay, six, but no more. Trust us."
        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
        Than a fool in the eyes of God


        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
          “The vaccine is the protection,” said Prof. Meital Gal Tanamy...

          Interesting. Not your immune system, the vaccine.

          There are also reports that anybody who has gotten the "The Jab" already must get a booster, because once the "vaccine" loses effectiveness, it leaves your immune system in a weakened state making you even more susceptible to the China flu (and possibly other diseases) than you were before.
          The vaccine is out of your body in a few days, MM. The mRNA gets "used up" by your body's cells pretty quickly. You are reading into the article something they didn't say. Saying "The vaccine is the protection" is talking about the vaccine creating a permanent immune response, which is clear from the context of the rest of the article.


          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Sparko View Post
            The vaccine is out of your body in a few days, MM. The mRNA gets "used up" by your body's cells pretty quickly.
            Ideally, yes, but the China flu vaccine is far from ideal. It also doesn't necessarily stay localized to the area of the shot. This is why people are experiencing a wide range of long lasting negative effects. When the mRNA lingers and spreads throughout the body, all kinds of bad things can and do happen.
            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
            Than a fool in the eyes of God


            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

              Ideally, yes, but the China flu vaccine is far from ideal. It also doesn't necessarily stay localized to the area of the shot. This is why people are experiencing a wide range of long lasting negative effects. When the mRNA lingers and spreads throughout the body, all kinds of bad things can and do happen.
              "People" aren't experiencing a "wide range of long lasting effects" MM. Anecdotally, almost everyone I know or work with at this point is vaccinated. Nobody is complaining about what the vaccine did to them.
              My 'faith' designation is 'Christian'. But I do not want the label "Christian" leading to mockery of faith in Christ. Consequently, I apologize if words of mine written in this post or others reflect poorly on the what Faith in Christ means, or what Faith in Christ can in fact do in terms of bringing Grace, Mercy, and Love into the world.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                Interesting article explaining why some vaccines require boosters while others don't and on the effectiveness of the Chicom coronaviruses in general

                Source: If the chickenpox vaccine lasts 20 years, why not the COVID-19 shot?


                Will the third booster shot be our last? Israeli doctors explain the science behind it.

                The measles vaccine lasts forever. The chickenpox vaccine is good for as long as 20 years. The DTaP (diphtheria, tetanus and pertussis) requires five doses before the age of seven, but then it offers protection for at least 10 years.

                So why do we assume that we will have to get a shot of the coronavirus vaccine every six months or year?

                There are reasons why individuals might need a COVID booster at least every year, but also some reasons why the third shot may, in fact, be our last.

                The first reason we might need a fourth (or fifth or sixth) shot is because of the decay of our own antibodies and immune response, explained Dr. Oren Kobiler of Tel Aviv University’s Sackler Faculty of Medicine.

                Recent studies have shown that the Pfizer coronavirus vaccine wanes after four to six months, making individuals more prone to infection. A booster dose does exactly what its name implies: It boosts our antibodies, offering greater protection against the virus.

                Another reason we might need repeated shots is due to variants, or what is known in scientific terms as “antigenic drift.” If the virus is always changing, then our vaccines will need to be updated to protect against the latest threat.

                Some viruses, such as polio, measles and mumps, do not change a lot, hence the vaccines continue to be effective. In contrast, influenza changes every year, so people receive a new flu vaccine to protect against it.

                “The vaccine is the protection,” said Prof. Meital Gal Tanamy, head of the Molecular Virology Lab at Bar-Ilan University’s Faculty of Medicine. “The period of protection is dependent on the vaccine and the virus.”

                “A variant is a virus that contains mutations, and if it has evolutionary advantages, it can take over in the population,” she said, adding that this is what happened with the Delta variant. “The other question is how effective against these variants the vaccines we have will be.”

                Coronavirus is an RNA virus, which means it changes. However, its mutation rate is three to four times less compared with the influenza virus, which is good news for vaccine makers, Gal Tanamy said.

                Another thing to consider is how good the immune response really is that is induced by the vaccine.

                “If the purpose of a vaccine is to prevent infection, then it needs to lead to the creation of a good memory cell response – B cells and T cells that are cells induced by the vaccine but that stay in our body,” Gal Tanamy said. “If a person becomes infected, these cells are activated and can create a fast and good response against the pathogen, which is why we do not get sick if we are vaccinated.”

                The question then is whether or not we get a good memory response with the vaccines that we have.

                Recent papers have shown that even as neutralizing antibodies wane, the vaccine still has a good memory response.

                So, why take the booster then?

                Because, Kobiler said, the booster is not only stopping serious disease, it is also aimed at halting infection – a high bar for a vaccine.

                “Most vaccines are used to prevent serious infection and not any infection,” he said. “Here we are asking the vaccine to prevent any and all disease, to prevent the infection from spreading.

                “Most people in the world don’t need the booster shot to prevent them from getting serious disease, but they do need it to prevent them from getting corona and spreading it to other people.”

                Gal Tanamy stressed that even people with two shots are “still very much protected from severe disease” because of their memory cells.

                But there are also reasons to believe that this third shot could be the last.

                Many childhood vaccines are taken three times and no more, such as the polio vaccine and the HPV vaccine against the papilloma virus. The latter, for example, if taken after the age of 15, needs three doses, one month and six months after the first dose, and then it lasts a lifetime, as far as scientists currently know.

                Another idea is that the administration regime could be altered to make the vaccines more effective.

                Several recent papers suggest, for example, that the Pfizer vaccine creates a more robust immunity if the first and second shots are given eight or even 12 weeks apart instead of three, Kobiler said.

                “Now, with the third dose being given at six months [after the second dose], I am not sure we will ever need another booster,” he said.

                There are also scientists who believe that like previous coronaviruses, the pandemic will eventually become endemic and less severe, and the need to vaccinate will soon become unnecessary, Kobiler added.

                “I am more inclined to that point of view because of what we know of other coronaviruses,” he said. “Usually, they are caught at a young age and cause very mild disease. And those that are exposed to them at a young age tend not to suffer from severe disease when they are older.”

                Finally, each booster sparks a better immune response, both in terms of quantity and quality of antibodies than the one before, Gal Tanamy said. The immune response becomes “more specific” and the antibodies “more efficient,” she said.

                So, will we or won’t we need to vaccinate against COVID for life?

                “Only time will tell,” Kobiler said.


                Source

                © Copyright Original Source




                Thanks
                My 'faith' designation is 'Christian'. But I do not want the label "Christian" leading to mockery of faith in Christ. Consequently, I apologize if words of mine written in this post or others reflect poorly on the what Faith in Christ means, or what Faith in Christ can in fact do in terms of bringing Grace, Mercy, and Love into the world.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                  Anecdotally...
                  As the saying goes, the plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
                  Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                  But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                  Than a fool in the eyes of God


                  From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                    As the saying goes, the plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
                    MM, there is nothing weird happening with the vaccines that a global conspiracy is keeping swept under a rug. But even if there was, listening to rumors about it from untrustworthy sources is one of the most destructive things any of us can do.

                    There are literally millions of people in this world that are honest and well trained and more than willing to report such things through the normal channels. Getting fed gossip from fringe web sites does nothing but create paranoia in yourself and others. At some point, we have to walk away from things like this simply because its the wrong way to live.

                    My 'faith' designation is 'Christian'. But I do not want the label "Christian" leading to mockery of faith in Christ. Consequently, I apologize if words of mine written in this post or others reflect poorly on the what Faith in Christ means, or what Faith in Christ can in fact do in terms of bringing Grace, Mercy, and Love into the world.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                      “The vaccine is the protection,” said Prof. Meital Gal Tanamy...

                      Interesting. Not your immune system, the vaccine.
                      Um… what?? The vaccine and immune system correlate, which is common knowledge and the educated professor understands. Unfortunately, he doesn’t cater to the withered cognition of paranoid naysayers.

                      Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                      There are also reports that anybody who has gotten the "The Jab" already must get a booster, because once the "vaccine" loses effectiveness, it leaves your immune system in a weakened state making you even more susceptible to the China flu (and possibly other diseases) than you were before.
                      ”There are also reports”

                      This coming from the guy who just said anecdotes aren’t data.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        The idea that "they" are hiding all of the harmful effects of the vaccines is nonsense. Just look what happened when a few people ended up with heart problems from the J&J vaccine. It was instantly in the news and they even withdrew it from circulation until it could be investigated. If they did that, why would they be sweeping tens of thousands of deaths as MW was claiming, under the rug? It would be huge news.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                          Interesting article explaining why some vaccines require boosters while others don't and on the effectiveness of the Chicom coronaviruses in general

                          Source: If the chickenpox vaccine lasts 20 years, why not the COVID-19 shot?


                          Will the third booster shot be our last? Israeli doctors explain the science behind it.

                          The measles vaccine lasts forever. The chickenpox vaccine is good for as long as 20 years. The DTaP (diphtheria, tetanus and pertussis) requires five doses before the age of seven, but then it offers protection for at least 10 years.

                          So why do we assume that we will have to get a shot of the coronavirus vaccine every six months or year?

                          There are reasons why individuals might need a COVID booster at least every year, but also some reasons why the third shot may, in fact, be our last.

                          The first reason we might need a fourth (or fifth or sixth) shot is because of the decay of our own antibodies and immune response, explained Dr. Oren Kobiler of Tel Aviv University’s Sackler Faculty of Medicine.

                          Recent studies have shown that the Pfizer coronavirus vaccine wanes after four to six months, making individuals more prone to infection. A booster dose does exactly what its name implies: It boosts our antibodies, offering greater protection against the virus.

                          Another reason we might need repeated shots is due to variants, or what is known in scientific terms as “antigenic drift.” If the virus is always changing, then our vaccines will need to be updated to protect against the latest threat.

                          Some viruses, such as polio, measles and mumps, do not change a lot, hence the vaccines continue to be effective. In contrast, influenza changes every year, so people receive a new flu vaccine to protect against it.

                          “The vaccine is the protection,” said Prof. Meital Gal Tanamy, head of the Molecular Virology Lab at Bar-Ilan University’s Faculty of Medicine. “The period of protection is dependent on the vaccine and the virus.”

                          “A variant is a virus that contains mutations, and if it has evolutionary advantages, it can take over in the population,” she said, adding that this is what happened with the Delta variant. “The other question is how effective against these variants the vaccines we have will be.”

                          Coronavirus is an RNA virus, which means it changes. However, its mutation rate is three to four times less compared with the influenza virus, which is good news for vaccine makers, Gal Tanamy said.

                          Another thing to consider is how good the immune response really is that is induced by the vaccine.

                          “If the purpose of a vaccine is to prevent infection, then it needs to lead to the creation of a good memory cell response – B cells and T cells that are cells induced by the vaccine but that stay in our body,” Gal Tanamy said. “If a person becomes infected, these cells are activated and can create a fast and good response against the pathogen, which is why we do not get sick if we are vaccinated.”

                          The question then is whether or not we get a good memory response with the vaccines that we have.

                          Recent papers have shown that even as neutralizing antibodies wane, the vaccine still has a good memory response.

                          So, why take the booster then?

                          Because, Kobiler said, the booster is not only stopping serious disease, it is also aimed at halting infection – a high bar for a vaccine.

                          “Most vaccines are used to prevent serious infection and not any infection,” he said. “Here we are asking the vaccine to prevent any and all disease, to prevent the infection from spreading.

                          “Most people in the world don’t need the booster shot to prevent them from getting serious disease, but they do need it to prevent them from getting corona and spreading it to other people.”

                          Gal Tanamy stressed that even people with two shots are “still very much protected from severe disease” because of their memory cells.

                          But there are also reasons to believe that this third shot could be the last.

                          Many childhood vaccines are taken three times and no more, such as the polio vaccine and the HPV vaccine against the papilloma virus. The latter, for example, if taken after the age of 15, needs three doses, one month and six months after the first dose, and then it lasts a lifetime, as far as scientists currently know.

                          Another idea is that the administration regime could be altered to make the vaccines more effective.

                          Several recent papers suggest, for example, that the Pfizer vaccine creates a more robust immunity if the first and second shots are given eight or even 12 weeks apart instead of three, Kobiler said.

                          “Now, with the third dose being given at six months [after the second dose], I am not sure we will ever need another booster,” he said.

                          There are also scientists who believe that like previous coronaviruses, the pandemic will eventually become endemic and less severe, and the need to vaccinate will soon become unnecessary, Kobiler added.

                          “I am more inclined to that point of view because of what we know of other coronaviruses,” he said. “Usually, they are caught at a young age and cause very mild disease. And those that are exposed to them at a young age tend not to suffer from severe disease when they are older.”

                          Finally, each booster sparks a better immune response, both in terms of quantity and quality of antibodies than the one before, Gal Tanamy said. The immune response becomes “more specific” and the antibodies “more efficient,” she said.

                          So, will we or won’t we need to vaccinate against COVID for life?

                          “Only time will tell,” Kobiler said.


                          Source

                          © Copyright Original Source




                          I dont understand the obsession with antibody levels. Memory cells are the important thing. We shouldn't want to constantly have high antibody levels because then antibody dependence develops. The human body isn't made to keep high levels of antibodies to everything it has fought - Wed explode in a ball of pus and blood if that were the case. That's why we have memory cells. So I don't get why so many are obsessed with these antibody levels/markers. And deciding to Jab again if they start falling. That's just asking for serious trouble.
                          "So when you actually get the virus, you're going to start producing antibodies against multiple pieces of the virus. So, your antibodies are probably better at that point than the vaccination."
                          - Pfizer Scientist Chris Croce

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                            As the saying goes, the plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
                            That is exactly why I prefaced my comment with "anecdotally". Its an observation, but not one that could tell you anything about some small effect.
                            My 'faith' designation is 'Christian'. But I do not want the label "Christian" leading to mockery of faith in Christ. Consequently, I apologize if words of mine written in this post or others reflect poorly on the what Faith in Christ means, or what Faith in Christ can in fact do in terms of bringing Grace, Mercy, and Love into the world.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                              MM, there is nothing weird happening with the vaccines that a global conspiracy is keeping swept under a rug.
                              I agree. So do you want to discuss the facts reasonably, or do you just want to cast aspersions?
                              Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                              But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                              Than a fool in the eyes of God


                              From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                              Comment

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