Colin Powell Dies Of Covid Complications

[Ronson]

Usually a less violent mechanism, but yes, if I was in a situation where I could interact with a smoker in a positive way, I would almost always gently ask why they did that given the likelihood they might well die of lung cancer or heart disease. And they would usually say 'yeah I know that, but it's really hard to quit'. And of course, the fact they were addicted to the things and most likely could not quit would override the urge to take it any further.

IOW, your moral responsibility to act to save the lives of smokers has been justified into inactivity.

This condemnation of yours and SL regarding covid vaccination is selective. You do not have a universal rule to which you follow.

[oxmixmudd]

I'm guessing you are slapping cigarettes out of smoker's mouths then...

Usually a less violent mechanism, but yes, if I was in a situation where I could interact with a smoker in a positive way, I would almost always gently ask why they did that given the likelihood they might well die of lung cancer or heart disease. And they would usually say 'yeah I know that, but it's really hard to quit'. And of course, the fact they were addicted to the things and most likely could not quit would override the urge to take it any further.

[Bill the Cat]

This was "Terrific"...

https://youtu.be/7R2JMCRlbso

[rogue06]

I'm guessing you are slapping cigarettes out of smoker's mouths then...

Personally I prefer rolling out spike strips along the road I live on to stop speeders.

[Bill the Cat]

Good grief back at you. 1500 a day are still dying in this country due in large part to the misinformation drive hesitancy to be vaccinated. And yes, there is moral responsibility when you know an act will save lives and you refuse to do it.

I'm guessing you are slapping cigarettes out of smoker's mouths then...

[Bill the Cat]

...

Those who refuse the vaccine are morally responsible for killing others around them when they predictably catch and pass on covid and it kills people.

I refuse the vaccine as someone who already recovered. My immunity is just as good as, if not better than, a vaccinated person's. I am not catching or passing it off.

[Ronson]

The broad brush argument that "If you don't get the vaccine then you are morally responsible for anybody who is infected by you" can apply to literally any infectious disease, which is why I ask those who make such arguments if they are committed to receiving every vaccine currently available, experimental or otherwise, self-quarantining, masking, and socially distancing for the rest of their lives. I usually get special pleading in response, if I get a response at all.

Special pleading, yes. There is a whole lot of that going on lately. And if you make note of that, they just ignore it like you never pointed it out.

[Ronson]

And yes, there is moral responsibility when you know an act will save lives and you refuse to do it.

One more thing, your claim above is selectively applied.

Otherwise, you are morally responsible for deaths in Africa due to hunger. You could have been sending food or money there. You knew such an an act would save lives and you refused to do it.

[Mountain Man]

SL said "Those who refuse the vaccine are morally responsible for killing others around them when they predictably catch and pass on covid and it kills people."

1) People who have had covid have natural immunity. It is perfectly reasonable for them to refuse to have something injected into their bodies that isn't necessary - and only because the Nanny Brigade is demanding it.
2) People who have been vaccinated can still carry and spread covid. So the SL statement doesn't make sense in any regard.
3) Relatively few people under 65 have been "killed" by covid, as well as people without comordities.

People who are terrified of dying (and of life) should never leave their homes. I've had covid - and I have been vaccinated too. I have no fear of those who have not.

The broad brush argument that "If you don't get the vaccine then you are morally responsible for anybody who is infected by you" can apply to literally any infectious disease, which is why I ask those who make such arguments if they are committed to receiving every vaccine currently available, experimental or otherwise, self-quarantining, masking, and socially distancing for the rest of their lives. I usually get special pleading in response, if I get a response at all.

[Ronson]

Good grief back at you. 1500 a day are still dying in this country due in large part to the misinformation drive hesitancy to be vaccinated. And yes, there is moral responsibility when you know an act will save lives and you refuse to do it.

SL said "Those who refuse the vaccine are morally responsible for killing others around them when they predictably catch and pass on covid and it kills people."

1) People who have had covid have natural immunity. It is perfectly reasonable for them to refuse to have something injected into their bodies that isn't necessary - and only because the Nanny Brigade is demanding it.
2) People who have been vaccinated can still carry and spread covid. So the SL statement doesn't make sense in any regard.
3) Relatively few people under 65 have been "killed" by covid, as well as people without comordities.

People who are terrified of dying (and of life) should never leave their homes. I've had covid - and I have been vaccinated too. I have no fear of those who have not.

[rogue06]

But vaccinated people can still get and pass on covid so that assertion falls flat.

Wrong. The vaccine greatly reduces the chance of someone getting and passing on covid.

I had a good friend like you. He tended to tell you that you're wrong even when agreeing with you.

[Mountain Man]

Not according to this:

https://www.ucdavis.edu/health/covid...cinated-people

And this in fact seems to be what research is showing for the delta variant. There are however, in the same search, a group of fact checks debunking the claim you are making, that viral load is greater.

Fully vaccinated adults can carry the same amount of coronavirus as those who are unvaccinated, according to a new study.

[...]

Previous research found that double jabbed people with the Alpha variant had far lower viral loads than un-vaccinated people, stoking hopes that the virus would spread less the more people were vaccinated.

However this has been thrown into doubt and raises questions about vaccine passports and recent changes to the NHS app, which work on the assumption that double-jabbed people are less likely to spread the virus.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/med...ted/ar-AANuNXh

Breakthrough Delta variant infections are associated with high viral loads, prolonged PCR positivity, and low levels of vaccine-induced neutralizing antibodies, explaining the transmission between the vaccinated people. Physical distancing measures remain critical to reduce SARS-CoV-2 Delta variant transmission.

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers....act_id=3897733

In July 2021, following multiple large public events in a Barnstable County, Massachusetts, town, 469 COVID-19 cases were identified among Massachusetts residents who had traveled to the town during July 3–17; 346 (74%) occurred in fully vaccinated persons. Testing identified the Delta variant in 90% of specimens from 133 patients. Cycle threshold values were similar among specimens from patients who were fully vaccinated and those who were not.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7031e2.htm

[JimboJSR]

Not according to this:

https://www.ucdavis.edu/health/covid...cinated-people

And this in fact seems to be what research is showing for the delta variant. There are however, in the same search, a group of fact checks debunking the claim you are making, that viral load is greater.

We would expect vaccination to reduce viral load, and thus infectivity to others, in the same way that "natural immunity" would. We're starting to get data that this is indeed the case with Covid.

Vaccinated patients less likely to transmit infection to others:
https://www.nejm.org/doi/10.1056/NEJ..._dat=cr_pub%20
https://www.nejm.org/doi/10.1056/NEJ..._dat=cr_pub%20

Vaccinated people produce fewer viral particles during infection than unvaccinated people:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01316-7
https://academic.oup.com/cid/advance...iab263/6188727
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33830018/
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1....08.21251329v1

[oxmixmudd]

In fact, so called "breakthrough cases" are very common, and vaccinated people carry a higher viral load and are more infectious than the unvaccinated. Furthermore, since the primary purpose of the "vaccine" is to suppress symptoms, someone with a "breakthrough case" may not even realize it and will be more likely to interact with other members of the public.

Not according to this:

https://www.ucdavis.edu/health/covid...cinated-people

And this in fact seems to be what research is showing for the delta variant. There are however, in the same search, a group of fact checks debunking the claim you are making, that viral load is greater.

[oxmixmudd]

Good grief.

Good grief back at you. 1500 a day are still dying in this country due in large part to the misinformation drive hesitancy to be vaccinated. And yes, there is moral responsibility when you know an act will save lives and you refuse to do it.