Originally posted by oxmixmudd
View Post
Announcement
Collapse
Civics 101 Guidelines
Want to argue about politics? Healthcare reform? Taxes? Governments? You've come to the right place!
Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
See more
See less
Colin Powell Dies Of Covid Complications
Collapse
X
-
That's what
- She
Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
- Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)
I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
- Stephen R. Donaldson
- 1 like
-
Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
I'm guessing you are slapping cigarettes out of smoker's mouths then...
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
Comment
-
Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
I'm guessing you are slapping cigarettes out of smoker's mouths then...My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1
If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26
This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19
Comment
-
Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
Usually a less violent mechanism, but yes, if I was in a situation where I could interact with a smoker in a positive way, I would almost always gently ask why they did that given the likelihood they might well die of lung cancer or heart disease. And they would usually say 'yeah I know that, but it's really hard to quit'. And of course, the fact they were addicted to the things and most likely could not quit would override the urge to take it any further.
This condemnation of yours and SL regarding covid vaccination is selective. You do not have a universal rule to which you follow.
- 1 like
Comment
-
Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
Usually a less violent mechanism, but yes, if I was in a situation where I could interact with a smoker in a positive way, I would almost always gently ask why they did that given the likelihood they might well die of lung cancer or heart disease. And they would usually say 'yeah I know that, but it's really hard to quit'. And of course, the fact they were addicted to the things and most likely could not quit would override the urge to take it any further.
- 2 likes
Comment
-
Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post
Okay so all someone has to do is day 'yeah I know that not getting vaxxed puts me at slight risk of dying of covid', and you would leave them alone?
My interpretation is that no action is necessary if any resistance might be anticipated. Then, I guess, the "moral responsibility" is somehow waived.
- 1 like
Comment
-
Originally posted by Ronson View Post1) People who have had covid have natural immunity. It is perfectly reasonable for them to refuse to have something injected into their bodies that isn't necessary - and only because the Nanny Brigade is demanding it.
2) People who have been vaccinated can still carry and spread covid. So the SL statement doesn't make sense in any regard.
3) Relatively few people under 65 have been "killed" by covid, as well as people without comordities.
I've had covid - and I have been vaccinated too."I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
- 1 like
Comment
-
Originally posted by Bill the Cat View PostI refuse the vaccine as someone who already recovered. My immunity is just as good as, if not better than, a vaccinated person's. I am not catching or passing it off.
If a sufficient percentage of the population has sufficiently strong immunity, then covid will die out within the population and stop spreading, and then nobody further would die from it. We can each do our part in contributing to that by getting our own immunity as strong as possible and thus saving lives."I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
Comment
-
Originally posted by Starlight View PostWhy can't you guys understand basic logic? The vaccine significantly reduces the probability of getting and spreading covid, and therefore significantly reduces the probability of others dying due to catching covid from you. If you fail to take a basic action to protect others, and they die as a result of that choice, you are morally responsible for their deaths. It's not complicated but you guys seem to refuse to understand this basic logic.
Does the COVID-19 vaccine prevent transmission?
Evidence suggests the U.S. COVID-19 vaccination program has substantially reduced the burden of disease in the United States by preventing serious illness in fully vaccinated people and interrupting chains of transmission.
Evidence "suggests" that serious illness is avoided through vaccination. Nothing about contraction and spread, other than reducing symptoms of serious illness.
So you would be fine with your actions resulting in the deaths of "relatively few" people, when you could take a simple step to significantly reduce that risk?
That's good to hear you've been vaccinated, so you've taken the simple step available to reduce the risk of you catching covid and passing it to others and them dying as a result. Well done. It's good to know that in practice you do the morally right thing even if you defend the idea of not doing so.
- 1 like
Comment
-
Originally posted by Ronson View PostThis condemnation of yours and SL regarding covid vaccination is selective. You do not have a universal rule to which you follow.
The two situations are different because covid is contagious. If a smoker dies from smoking or an unvaccinated person dies from covid, that is, to some extent themselves reaping the consequences of their own foolish choices and to an extent their individual freedom justifies this. However with covid, unlike smoking, other people can die from it due to catching covid from them so their choice to not be vaccinated increases the risk to others, not just to them. It like letting drunk people drive - it's not just their lives that they're risking it's the lives of the others on the road.
You could say "second hand smoke represents a risk to others so that part is similar", and I would say yes, that's why in my country we have strong laws meaning anyone who smokes in public has to do it outside and nowhere near others to prevent anyone being negatively affected by their poor life choices. The government here also puts massive taxes on cigarettes to discourage their use, making them about 4x the price they are in the US.
The important difference though is the contagious nature of covid. You are not risking your own life by having lower immunity to it, you're risking everyone you come into contact with because if you catch it you become a vector for passing it on to them. The ideal situation would be where everyone does their part to increase their immunity sufficiently such that the R-effective value of covid spread in the population drops below 1 and the disease then disappears from the country. However, because there are a sufficiently large number of selfish people who refuse to be vaccinated, the disease will just keep spreading among them, and even vaccinated people or those who have had it previously could catch it from these people."I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
Comment
-
Originally posted by Starlight View PostA vaccine at this stage would still increase your immunity and thus reduce your chances of catching covid again, and thus reduce the chances of someone else catching covid from you and thus reduce the chances of them dying by catching covid from you.
If a sufficient percentage of the population has sufficiently strong immunity, then covid will die out within the population and stop spreading, and then nobody further would die from it. We can each do our part in contributing to that by getting our own immunity as strong as possible and thus saving lives.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Ronson View PostYou are adding to what the CDC claims:
Does the COVID-19 vaccine prevent transmission?
Evidence suggests the U.S. COVID-19 vaccination program has substantially reduced the burden of disease in the United States by preventing serious illness in fully vaccinated people and interrupting chains of transmission.
Evidence "suggests" that serious illness is avoided through vaccination. Nothing about contraction and spread, other than reducing symptoms of serious illness.
Faulty premise (as stated above). A person who is unvaccinated only risks their own health, just like a person who bungee jumps or shoots heroin is no threat to others because of their activity."I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
- 1 like
Comment
-
Originally posted by Gondwanaland View PostNo, it would simply increase his antibody levels, and potentially lead to antibody dependence issues."I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
Comment
-
Originally posted by Starlight View PostI've bolded the crucial part for you. Read it carefully several times. Ask someone to explain it to you if you still can't understand that those words mean exactly what you claimed they didn't mean in your post.
To rephrase it:
Evidence suggests the U.S. COVID-19 vaccination program has substantially reduced the burden of disease in the United States by preventing serious illness in fully vaccinated people and therefore interrupting chains of transmission.
IOW, people who are not seriously ill are less likely to be sneezing and coughing in public. That is the transmission chain - NOT because the vaccine miraculously prevents contraction or creates transmission roadblocks.
Your misunderstanding really seems to be the part above. The vaccine interrupts chains of transmission by reducing the chance that an exposed person will catch covid
and as a result reduces the chance of them spreading it to others and as a result of that reduces the chance of those around them dying by catching it from that person.
- 1 like
Comment
Related Threads
Collapse
Topics | Statistics | Last Post | ||
---|---|---|---|---|
Started by little_monkey, 03-27-2024, 04:19 PM
|
16 responses
159 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by One Bad Pig
Yesterday, 11:55 AM
|
||
Started by whag, 03-26-2024, 04:38 PM
|
53 responses
400 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by Mountain Man
Yesterday, 11:32 AM
|
||
Started by rogue06, 03-26-2024, 11:45 AM
|
25 responses
114 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by rogue06
Yesterday, 08:36 AM
|
||
Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 03-26-2024, 09:21 AM
|
33 responses
198 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by Roy
Yesterday, 07:43 AM
|
||
Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 03-26-2024, 08:34 AM
|
84 responses
379 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by JimL
Yesterday, 11:08 AM
|
Comment