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Colin Powell Dies Of Covid Complications

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Ronson View Post

    IOW, your moral responsibility to act to save the lives of smokers has been justified into inactivity.
    You are mixing inxompatable categories and trying to say they are the same. They aren't.


    There is more than adequate public information about the dangers of smoking. There is a warning on every pack. And smoking in public places is now illegal, so the issue is not that their smoking is likely to harm others through second hand smoke. In the case of smoking, it really is a personal matter.

    Covid is a virus that kills by infecting a host and reproducing in it. It requires corporate actions by the entire population to bring it under control.

    This condemnation of yours and SL regarding covid vaccination is selective. You do not have a universal rule to which you follow.
    Your mistake is in trying to naively apply the statement I made about moral responsibility to a situation that isn't even comparable to public vaccination in a pandemic.

    So, to get back to your smoker analogy, it is not me that is responsible for taking away a smoker's cigarette, it is the smoker who bears the responsibility to stop smoking. Likewise it is the unvaccinated persons responsibility to get vaccinated, not my personal responsibility to tie them down and force them to take the shot. Otoh, it is the governments responsibility to protect others from secondhand smoke, hence smoking bans in indoor public spaces, and it is the government's responsibility to curb spread of the virus, hence vaccine mandates.
    Last edited by oxmixmudd; 10-21-2021, 05:23 PM.
    My 'faith' designation is 'Christian'. But I do not want the label "Christian" leading to mockery of faith in Christ. Consequently, I apologize if words of mine written in this post or others reflect poorly on the what Faith in Christ means, or what Faith in Christ can in fact do in terms of bringing Grace, Mercy, and Love into the world.

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by Starlight View Post
      False.
      Your embarrassing ignorance of basic reality does not make something false.
      "So when you actually get the virus, you're going to start producing antibodies against multiple pieces of the virus. So, your antibodies are probably better at that point than the vaccination."
      - Pfizer Scientist Chris Croce

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by Ronson View Post
        You are taking liberties with what that quote claims.

        To rephrase it:
        Evidence suggests the U.S. COVID-19 vaccination program has substantially reduced the burden of disease in the United States by preventing serious illness in fully vaccinated people and therefore interrupting chains of transmission.
        You are literally rewriting their words to mean something they didn't say, and you accuse me of taking liberties with their quote?

        No. Your paraphrase is just false. That's not what they're saying.

        Originally posted by Starlight
        reducing the chance that an exposed person will catch covid
        Can you cite where this bolded part is stated?
        Well the very sentence after the one your quoted from their website is a good start:
        ...and interrupting chains of transmission. Vaccinated people can still become infected and have the potential to spread the virus to others, although at much lower rates than unvaccinated people.


        Alternatively their study here:
        CDC COVID-19 Study Shows mRNA Vaccines Reduce Risk of Infection by 91 Percent for Fully Vaccinated People

        A new CDC study finds the mRNA COVID-19 vaccines authorized by the Food and Drug Administration (Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna) reduce the risk of infection by 91 percent for fully vaccinated people.

        ...Findings from the extended timeframe of this study add to accumulating evidence that mRNA COVID-19 vaccines are effective and should prevent most infections... and appear to be less likely to spread the virus to others [even in the less-likely event they do get infected]

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by Starlight View Post
          A vaccine at this stage would still increase your immunity and thus reduce your chances of catching covid again, and thus reduce the chances of someone else catching covid from you and thus reduce the chances of them dying by catching covid from you.

          If a sufficient percentage of the population has sufficiently strong immunity, then covid will die out within the population and stop spreading, and then nobody further would die from it. We can each do our part in contributing to that by getting our own immunity as strong as possible and thus saving lives.
          So what you are saying is that my and your current levels of immunity are insufficient... good take
          That's what
          - She

          Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
          - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

          I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
          Stephen R. Donaldson

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post

            Okay so all someone has to do is day 'yeah I know that not getting vaxxed puts me at slight risk of dying of covid', and you would leave them alone?
            No, as I explained, the analogy is reversed. I'm talking about a personal responsibility not to harm others - that is the context of my statement about the moral responsibility to get vaccinated. That can't just be perverted into some obligation to forcefully prevent others from harming themselves.
            My 'faith' designation is 'Christian'. But I do not want the label "Christian" leading to mockery of faith in Christ. Consequently, I apologize if words of mine written in this post or others reflect poorly on the what Faith in Christ means, or what Faith in Christ can in fact do in terms of bringing Grace, Mercy, and Love into the world.

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post

              No, as I explained, the analogy is reversed. I'm talking about a personal responsibility not to harm others - that is the context of my statement about the moral responsibility to get vaccinated. That can't just be perverted into some obligation to forcefully prevent others from harming themselves.
              So you're against mandates then.
              "So when you actually get the virus, you're going to start producing antibodies against multiple pieces of the virus. So, your antibodies are probably better at that point than the vaccination."
              - Pfizer Scientist Chris Croce

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by Starlight View Post

                A new CDC study finds the mRNA COVID-19 vaccines authorized by the Food and Drug Administration (Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna) reduce the risk of infection by 91 percent for fully vaccinated people.

                ...Findings from the extended timeframe of this study add to accumulating evidence that mRNA COVID-19 vaccines are effective and should prevent most infections... and appear to be less likely to spread the virus to others [even in the less-likely event they do get infected]
                Very well. I stand corrected.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post

                  So you're against mandates then.
                  'I' am not the government

                  I am for vaccine mandates. I am NOT for individual citizens tying people up and giving them shots.

                  The issue is not about people choosing to take a risk that might harm themselves. It is about people choosing to be negligent and harming others.

                  Last edited by oxmixmudd; 10-21-2021, 08:55 PM.
                  My 'faith' designation is 'Christian'. But I do not want the label "Christian" leading to mockery of faith in Christ. Consequently, I apologize if words of mine written in this post or others reflect poorly on the what Faith in Christ means, or what Faith in Christ can in fact do in terms of bringing Grace, Mercy, and Love into the world.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post

                    'I' am not the government

                    I am for vaccine mandates. I am NOT for individual citizens tying people up and giving them shots.

                    The issue is not about people choosing to take a risk that might harm themselves. It is about people choosing to be negligent and harming others.

                    You can't seem to keep your story straight.
                    "So when you actually get the virus, you're going to start producing antibodies against multiple pieces of the virus. So, your antibodies are probably better at that point than the vaccination."
                    - Pfizer Scientist Chris Croce

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post

                      You can't seem to keep your story straight.
                      My story is straight. It's your comments that are confused.

                      However, you would do better to focus on the ideas rather than trying to discredit the person. After all, isn't the point to show that your ideas are correct? Focussing on discrediting the person who disagrees with your ideas mostly means you can't defend your ideas.
                      My 'faith' designation is 'Christian'. But I do not want the label "Christian" leading to mockery of faith in Christ. Consequently, I apologize if words of mine written in this post or others reflect poorly on the what Faith in Christ means, or what Faith in Christ can in fact do in terms of bringing Grace, Mercy, and Love into the world.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
                        So what you are saying is that my and your current levels of immunity are insufficient... good take
                        Indeed my take is excellent, as might be expected from a scientist. I would love to get a 3rd dose of the vaccine.

                        You yourself are in an enviable position of having survived covid and can thus now get two doses of the vaccine yourself and thus achieve very very strong immunity to it.
                        Last edited by Starlight; 10-22-2021, 12:41 AM.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                          Indeed my take is excellent, as might be expected from a scientist. I would love to get a 3rd dose of the vaccine.
                          So go get it. What's stopping you?

                          You yourself are in an enviable position of having survived covid and can thus now get two doses of the vaccine yourself and thus achieve very very strong immunity to it.
                          But I don't NEED to. My immunity is sufficient to ward off reinfection for a pretty substantial time. And my body has proven that it can fight it off effectively.
                          That's what
                          - She

                          Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                          - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                          I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                          Stephen R. Donaldson

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                            It is about people choosing to be negligent and harming others.
                            Begging the question. It is not negligent to make an informed decision to not get a risky vaccine that was rushed through production, has questionable benefits, and carries with it a number of serious negative side effects. I have no problem if someone wishes to accept that risk themselves (assuming they have been properly informed), but it would be immoral to mandate that others accept that risk against their will.
                            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                            Than a fool in the eyes of God


                            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post

                              No, it would simply increase his antibody levels, and potentially lead to antibody dependence issues.
                              If you are talking about Antibody Dependent Enhancement (ADE) I have already shown you that does not happen with COVID vaccines.

                              Source: https://www.nebraskamed.com/COVID/antibody-dependent-enhancement-in-vaccines

                              Question:

                              Do COVID-19 vaccines cause antibody-dependent enhancement (ADE), also known as vaccine enhanced disease (VED)?

                              Answered by infectious diseases expert Nada Fadul, MD:
                              Antibody-dependent enhancement (ADE) is something researchers watch for very carefully and is extremely rare. In ADE, certain antibodies make it easier for viruses to get into cells. This is bad because it would mean a virus or a vaccine makes people more at risk for severe disease.

                              If COVID-19 vaccines caused ADE, people who are vaccinated against COVID-19 would have more severe disease. This is not happening. On the contrary, people who are vaccinated typically have very mild disease or none at all. In fact, the majority of COVID-19 deaths in the U.S. are people who aren't fully vaccinated. In May, fully vaccinated people made up just 0.8% of COVID-19 deaths. That means 99.2% of COVID-19 deaths were in unvaccinated people.

                              The COVID-19 vaccines are safe. More than 155 million people in the United States are fully vaccinated. The COVID-19 vaccines protect you from severe disease and death. Get your vaccine today.

                              A note for concerned parents: Zero vaccines given today cause ADE. An older measles vaccine and a respiratory syncytial virus (RSV) vaccine were removed from use after showing evidence of causing ADE. A dengue virus vaccine causing ADE was also discontinued for young children.

                              © Copyright Original Source






                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Sparko View Post

                                If you are talking about Antibody Dependent Enhancement (ADE) I have already shown you that does not happen with COVID vaccines.

                                Source: https://www.nebraskamed.com/COVID/antibody-dependent-enhancement-in-vaccines

                                Question:

                                Do COVID-19 vaccines cause antibody-dependent enhancement (ADE), also known as vaccine enhanced disease (VED)?

                                Answered by infectious diseases expert Nada Fadul, MD:
                                Antibody-dependent enhancement (ADE) is something researchers watch for very carefully and is extremely rare. In ADE, certain antibodies make it easier for viruses to get into cells. This is bad because it would mean a virus or a vaccine makes people more at risk for severe disease.

                                If COVID-19 vaccines caused ADE, people who are vaccinated against COVID-19 would have more severe disease. This is not happening. On the contrary, people who are vaccinated typically have very mild disease or none at all. In fact, the majority of COVID-19 deaths in the U.S. are people who aren't fully vaccinated. In May, fully vaccinated people made up just 0.8% of COVID-19 deaths. That means 99.2% of COVID-19 deaths were in unvaccinated people.

                                The COVID-19 vaccines are safe. More than 155 million people in the United States are fully vaccinated. The COVID-19 vaccines protect you from severe disease and death. Get your vaccine today.

                                A note for concerned parents: Zero vaccines given today cause ADE. An older measles vaccine and a respiratory syncytial virus (RSV) vaccine were removed from use after showing evidence of causing ADE. A dengue virus vaccine causing ADE was also discontinued for young children.

                                © Copyright Original Source




                                No, you showed that it has (maybe) not happened yet. We're just now getting to three and four shots.
                                "So when you actually get the virus, you're going to start producing antibodies against multiple pieces of the virus. So, your antibodies are probably better at that point than the vaccination."
                                - Pfizer Scientist Chris Croce

                                Comment

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