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Colin Powell Dies Of Covid Complications

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  • #31
    Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post

    Good grief back at you. 1500 a day are still dying in this country due in large part to the misinformation drive hesitancy to be vaccinated. And yes, there is moral responsibility when you know an act will save lives and you refuse to do it.
    I'm guessing you are slapping cigarettes out of smoker's mouths then...
    That's what
    - She

    Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
    - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

    I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
    Stephen R. Donaldson

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post

      I'm guessing you are slapping cigarettes out of smoker's mouths then...
      Personally I prefer rolling out spike strips along the road I live on to stop speeders.

      I'm always still in trouble again

      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

      Comment


      • #33
        This was "Terrific"...

        https://youtu.be/7R2JMCRlbso
        That's what
        - She

        Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
        - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

        I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
        Stephen R. Donaldson

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post

          I'm guessing you are slapping cigarettes out of smoker's mouths then...
          Usually a less violent mechanism, but yes, if I was in a situation where I could interact with a smoker in a positive way, I would almost always gently ask why they did that given the likelihood they might well die of lung cancer or heart disease. And they would usually say 'yeah I know that, but it's really hard to quit'. And of course, the fact they were addicted to the things and most likely could not quit would override the urge to take it any further.
          My 'faith' designation is 'Christian'. But I do not want the label "Christian" leading to mockery of faith in Christ. Consequently, I apologize if words of mine written in this post or others reflect poorly on the what Faith in Christ means, or what Faith in Christ can in fact do in terms of bringing Grace, Mercy, and Love into the world.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post

            Usually a less violent mechanism, but yes, if I was in a situation where I could interact with a smoker in a positive way, I would almost always gently ask why they did that given the likelihood they might well die of lung cancer or heart disease. And they would usually say 'yeah I know that, but it's really hard to quit'. And of course, the fact they were addicted to the things and most likely could not quit would override the urge to take it any further.
            IOW, your moral responsibility to act to save the lives of smokers has been justified into inactivity.

            This condemnation of yours and SL regarding covid vaccination is selective. You do not have a universal rule to which you follow.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post

              Usually a less violent mechanism, but yes, if I was in a situation where I could interact with a smoker in a positive way, I would almost always gently ask why they did that given the likelihood they might well die of lung cancer or heart disease. And they would usually say 'yeah I know that, but it's really hard to quit'. And of course, the fact they were addicted to the things and most likely could not quit would override the urge to take it any further.
              Okay so all someone has to do is day 'yeah I know that not getting vaxxed puts me at slight risk of dying of covid', and you would leave them alone?
              "So when you actually get the virus, you're going to start producing antibodies against multiple pieces of the virus. So, your antibodies are probably better at that point than the vaccination."
              - Pfizer Scientist Chris Croce

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post

                Okay so all someone has to do is day 'yeah I know that not getting vaxxed puts me at slight risk of dying of covid', and you would leave them alone?
                I don't believe you'd even need to get that far.

                My interpretation is that no action is necessary if any resistance might be anticipated. Then, I guess, the "moral responsibility" is somehow waived.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Ronson View Post
                  1) People who have had covid have natural immunity. It is perfectly reasonable for them to refuse to have something injected into their bodies that isn't necessary - and only because the Nanny Brigade is demanding it.
                  I don't have much of an issue with people who have had the virus not getting the vaccine. Their immunity seems to be comparable to those who have had the vaccine. It still makes logical sense for them to get the vaccine since they would have greater immunity against reinfection as a result.

                  2) People who have been vaccinated can still carry and spread covid. So the SL statement doesn't make sense in any regard.
                  Why can't you guys understand basic logic? The vaccine significantly reduces the probability of getting and spreading covid, and therefore significantly reduces the probability of others dying due to catching covid from you. If you fail to take a basic action to protect others, and they die as a result of that choice, you are morally responsible for their deaths. It's not complicated but you guys seem to refuse to understand this basic logic.

                  3) Relatively few people under 65 have been "killed" by covid, as well as people without comordities.
                  So you would be fine with your actions resulting in the deaths of "relatively few" people, when you could take a simple step to significantly reduce that risk?

                  I've had covid - and I have been vaccinated too.
                  That's good to hear you've been vaccinated, so you've taken the simple step available to reduce the risk of you catching covid and passing it to others and them dying as a result. Well done. It's good to know that in practice you do the morally right thing even if you defend the idea of not doing so.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
                    I refuse the vaccine as someone who already recovered. My immunity is just as good as, if not better than, a vaccinated person's. I am not catching or passing it off.
                    A vaccine at this stage would still increase your immunity and thus reduce your chances of catching covid again, and thus reduce the chances of someone else catching covid from you and thus reduce the chances of them dying by catching covid from you.

                    If a sufficient percentage of the population has sufficiently strong immunity, then covid will die out within the population and stop spreading, and then nobody further would die from it. We can each do our part in contributing to that by getting our own immunity as strong as possible and thus saving lives.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                      Why can't you guys understand basic logic? The vaccine significantly reduces the probability of getting and spreading covid, and therefore significantly reduces the probability of others dying due to catching covid from you. If you fail to take a basic action to protect others, and they die as a result of that choice, you are morally responsible for their deaths. It's not complicated but you guys seem to refuse to understand this basic logic.
                      You are adding to what the CDC claims:

                      Does the COVID-19 vaccine prevent transmission?

                      Evidence suggests the U.S. COVID-19 vaccination program has substantially reduced the burden of disease in the United States by preventing serious illness in fully vaccinated people and interrupting chains of transmission.


                      Evidence "suggests" that serious illness is avoided through vaccination. Nothing about contraction and spread, other than reducing symptoms of serious illness.

                      So you would be fine with your actions resulting in the deaths of "relatively few" people, when you could take a simple step to significantly reduce that risk?
                      Faulty premise (as stated above). A person who is unvaccinated only risks their own health, just like a person who bungee jumps or shoots heroin is no threat to others because of their activity.

                      That's good to hear you've been vaccinated, so you've taken the simple step available to reduce the risk of you catching covid and passing it to others and them dying as a result. Well done. It's good to know that in practice you do the morally right thing even if you defend the idea of not doing so.
                      Because what I choose to do with my body is my business, just as people who choose not to be vaccinated exercise their own personal freedom.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Ronson View Post
                        This condemnation of yours and SL regarding covid vaccination is selective. You do not have a universal rule to which you follow.
                        Not true at all. I support strong government action to reduce smoking just as I support strong government action to get people vaccinated against covid, in both instances to save lives and reduce preventable deaths.

                        The two situations are different because covid is contagious. If a smoker dies from smoking or an unvaccinated person dies from covid, that is, to some extent themselves reaping the consequences of their own foolish choices and to an extent their individual freedom justifies this. However with covid, unlike smoking, other people can die from it due to catching covid from them so their choice to not be vaccinated increases the risk to others, not just to them. It like letting drunk people drive - it's not just their lives that they're risking it's the lives of the others on the road.

                        You could say "second hand smoke represents a risk to others so that part is similar", and I would say yes, that's why in my country we have strong laws meaning anyone who smokes in public has to do it outside and nowhere near others to prevent anyone being negatively affected by their poor life choices. The government here also puts massive taxes on cigarettes to discourage their use, making them about 4x the price they are in the US.

                        The important difference though is the contagious nature of covid. You are not risking your own life by having lower immunity to it, you're risking everyone you come into contact with because if you catch it you become a vector for passing it on to them. The ideal situation would be where everyone does their part to increase their immunity sufficiently such that the R-effective value of covid spread in the population drops below 1 and the disease then disappears from the country. However, because there are a sufficiently large number of selfish people who refuse to be vaccinated, the disease will just keep spreading among them, and even vaccinated people or those who have had it previously could catch it from these people.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                          A vaccine at this stage would still increase your immunity and thus reduce your chances of catching covid again, and thus reduce the chances of someone else catching covid from you and thus reduce the chances of them dying by catching covid from you.

                          If a sufficient percentage of the population has sufficiently strong immunity, then covid will die out within the population and stop spreading, and then nobody further would die from it. We can each do our part in contributing to that by getting our own immunity as strong as possible and thus saving lives.
                          No, it would simply increase his antibody levels, and potentially lead to antibody dependence issues.
                          "So when you actually get the virus, you're going to start producing antibodies against multiple pieces of the virus. So, your antibodies are probably better at that point than the vaccination."
                          - Pfizer Scientist Chris Croce

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Ronson View Post
                            You are adding to what the CDC claims:

                            Does the COVID-19 vaccine prevent transmission?

                            Evidence suggests the U.S. COVID-19 vaccination program has substantially reduced the burden of disease in the United States by preventing serious illness in fully vaccinated people and interrupting chains of transmission.


                            Evidence "suggests" that serious illness is avoided through vaccination. Nothing about contraction and spread, other than reducing symptoms of serious illness.
                            I've bolded the crucial part for you. Read it carefully several times. Ask someone to explain it to you if you still can't understand that those words mean exactly what you claimed they didn't mean in your post.

                            Faulty premise (as stated above). A person who is unvaccinated only risks their own health, just like a person who bungee jumps or shoots heroin is no threat to others because of their activity.
                            Your misunderstanding really seems to be the part above. The vaccine interrupts chains of transmission by reducing the chance that an exposed person will catch covid and as a result reduces the chance of them spreading it to others and as a result of that reduces the chance of those around them dying by catching it from that person.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post
                              No, it would simply increase his antibody levels, and potentially lead to antibody dependence issues.
                              False.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                                I've bolded the crucial part for you. Read it carefully several times. Ask someone to explain it to you if you still can't understand that those words mean exactly what you claimed they didn't mean in your post.
                                You are taking liberties with what that quote claims.

                                To rephrase it:
                                Evidence suggests the U.S. COVID-19 vaccination program has substantially reduced the burden of disease in the United States by preventing serious illness in fully vaccinated people and therefore interrupting chains of transmission.


                                IOW, people who are not seriously ill are less likely to be sneezing and coughing in public. That is the transmission chain - NOT because the vaccine miraculously prevents contraction or creates transmission roadblocks.

                                Your misunderstanding really seems to be the part above. The vaccine interrupts chains of transmission by reducing the chance that an exposed person will catch covid
                                Can you cite where this bolded part is stated?

                                and as a result reduces the chance of them spreading it to others and as a result of that reduces the chance of those around them dying by catching it from that person.

                                Comment

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