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Colin Powell Dies Of Covid Complications

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  • #16
    The "wrong" in my post refers to the "so that assertion falls flat" statement by you. Not to the statement that vaccinated people can sometimes still get and pass on covid.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Starlight View Post
      The "wrong" in my post refers to the "so that assertion falls flat" statement by you. Not to the statement that vaccinated people can sometimes still get and pass on covid.
      Your assertion falls flat, BECAUSE of the statement that vaccinated people can get and pass on covid.
      "So when you actually get the virus, you're going to start producing antibodies against multiple pieces of the virus. So, your antibodies are probably better at that point than the vaccination."
      - Pfizer Scientist Chris Croce

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post

        But vaccinated people can still get and pass on covid so that assertion falls flat.
        In fact, so called "breakthrough cases" are very common, and vaccinated people carry a higher viral load and are more infectious than the unvaccinated. Furthermore, since the primary purpose of the "vaccine" is to suppress symptoms, someone with a "breakthrough case" may not even realize it and will be more likely to interact with other members of the public.
        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
        Than a fool in the eyes of God


        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Starlight View Post
          Those who refuse the vaccine are morally responsible for killing others around them when they predictably catch and pass on covid and it kills people.
          Good grief.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
            ...vaccinated people carry a higher viral load and are more infectious than the unvaccinated.
            Link?
            ...because every forum needs a Jimbo

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Ronson View Post

              Good grief.
              Good grief back at you. 1500 a day are still dying in this country due in large part to the misinformation drive hesitancy to be vaccinated. And yes, there is moral responsibility when you know an act will save lives and you refuse to do it.
              My 'faith' designation is 'Christian'. But I do not want the label "Christian" leading to mockery of faith in Christ. Consequently, I apologize if words of mine written in this post or others reflect poorly on the what Faith in Christ means, or what Faith in Christ can in fact do in terms of bringing Grace, Mercy, and Love into the world.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                In fact, so called "breakthrough cases" are very common, and vaccinated people carry a higher viral load and are more infectious than the unvaccinated. Furthermore, since the primary purpose of the "vaccine" is to suppress symptoms, someone with a "breakthrough case" may not even realize it and will be more likely to interact with other members of the public.
                Not according to this:

                https://www.ucdavis.edu/health/covid...cinated-people

                And this in fact seems to be what research is showing for the delta variant. There are however, in the same search, a group of fact checks debunking the claim you are making, that viral load is greater.

                My 'faith' designation is 'Christian'. But I do not want the label "Christian" leading to mockery of faith in Christ. Consequently, I apologize if words of mine written in this post or others reflect poorly on the what Faith in Christ means, or what Faith in Christ can in fact do in terms of bringing Grace, Mercy, and Love into the world.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post

                  Not according to this:

                  https://www.ucdavis.edu/health/covid...cinated-people

                  And this in fact seems to be what research is showing for the delta variant. There are however, in the same search, a group of fact checks debunking the claim you are making, that viral load is greater.
                  We would expect vaccination to reduce viral load, and thus infectivity to others, in the same way that "natural immunity" would. We're starting to get data that this is indeed the case with Covid.

                  Vaccinated patients less likely to transmit infection to others:
                  https://www.nejm.org/doi/10.1056/NEJ..._dat=cr_pub%20
                  https://www.nejm.org/doi/10.1056/NEJ..._dat=cr_pub%20

                  Vaccinated people produce fewer viral particles during infection than unvaccinated people:
                  https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01316-7
                  https://academic.oup.com/cid/advance...iab263/6188727
                  https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33830018/
                  https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1....08.21251329v1
                  ...because every forum needs a Jimbo

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post

                    Not according to this:

                    https://www.ucdavis.edu/health/covid...cinated-people

                    And this in fact seems to be what research is showing for the delta variant. There are however, in the same search, a group of fact checks debunking the claim you are making, that viral load is greater.
                    Fully vaccinated adults can carry the same amount of coronavirus as those who are unvaccinated, according to a new study.

                    [...]

                    Previous research found that double jabbed people with the Alpha variant had far lower viral loads than un-vaccinated people, stoking hopes that the virus would spread less the more people were vaccinated.

                    However this has been thrown into doubt and raises questions about vaccine passports and recent changes to the NHS app, which work on the assumption that double-jabbed people are less likely to spread the virus.

                    https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/med...ted/ar-AANuNXh

                    Breakthrough Delta variant infections are associated with high viral loads, prolonged PCR positivity, and low levels of vaccine-induced neutralizing antibodies, explaining the transmission between the vaccinated people. Physical distancing measures remain critical to reduce SARS-CoV-2 Delta variant transmission.

                    https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers....act_id=3897733

                    In July 2021, following multiple large public events in a Barnstable County, Massachusetts, town, 469 COVID-19 cases were identified among Massachusetts residents who had traveled to the town during July 3–17; 346 (74%) occurred in fully vaccinated persons. Testing identified the Delta variant in 90% of specimens from 133 patients. Cycle threshold values were similar among specimens from patients who were fully vaccinated and those who were not.

                    https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7031e2.htm

                    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                    Than a fool in the eyes of God


                    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post
                      But vaccinated people can still get and pass on covid so that assertion falls flat.
                      Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                      Wrong. The vaccine greatly reduces the chance of someone getting and passing on covid.
                      I had a good friend like you. He tended to tell you that you're wrong even when agreeing with you.


                      I'm always still in trouble again

                      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post

                        Good grief back at you. 1500 a day are still dying in this country due in large part to the misinformation drive hesitancy to be vaccinated. And yes, there is moral responsibility when you know an act will save lives and you refuse to do it.
                        SL said "Those who refuse the vaccine are morally responsible for killing others around them when they predictably catch and pass on covid and it kills people."

                        1) People who have had covid have natural immunity. It is perfectly reasonable for them to refuse to have something injected into their bodies that isn't necessary - and only because the Nanny Brigade is demanding it.
                        2) People who have been vaccinated can still carry and spread covid. So the SL statement doesn't make sense in any regard.
                        3) Relatively few people under 65 have been "killed" by covid, as well as people without comordities.

                        People who are terrified of dying (and of life) should never leave their homes. I've had covid - and I have been vaccinated too. I have no fear of those who have not.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Ronson View Post

                          SL said "Those who refuse the vaccine are morally responsible for killing others around them when they predictably catch and pass on covid and it kills people."

                          1) People who have had covid have natural immunity. It is perfectly reasonable for them to refuse to have something injected into their bodies that isn't necessary - and only because the Nanny Brigade is demanding it.
                          2) People who have been vaccinated can still carry and spread covid. So the SL statement doesn't make sense in any regard.
                          3) Relatively few people under 65 have been "killed" by covid, as well as people without comordities.

                          People who are terrified of dying (and of life) should never leave their homes. I've had covid - and I have been vaccinated too. I have no fear of those who have not.
                          The broad brush argument that "If you don't get the vaccine then you are morally responsible for anybody who is infected by you" can apply to literally any infectious disease, which is why I ask those who make such arguments if they are committed to receiving every vaccine currently available, experimental or otherwise, self-quarantining, masking, and socially distancing for the rest of their lives. I usually get special pleading in response, if I get a response at all.
                          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                          Than a fool in the eyes of God


                          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                            And yes, there is moral responsibility when you know an act will save lives and you refuse to do it.
                            One more thing, your claim above is selectively applied.

                            Otherwise, you are morally responsible for deaths in Africa due to hunger. You could have been sending food or money there. You knew such an an act would save lives and you refused to do it.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                              The broad brush argument that "If you don't get the vaccine then you are morally responsible for anybody who is infected by you" can apply to literally any infectious disease, which is why I ask those who make such arguments if they are committed to receiving every vaccine currently available, experimental or otherwise, self-quarantining, masking, and socially distancing for the rest of their lives. I usually get special pleading in response, if I get a response at all.
                              Special pleading, yes. There is a whole lot of that going on lately. And if you make note of that, they just ignore it like you never pointed it out.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                                ...

                                Those who refuse the vaccine are morally responsible for killing others around them when they predictably catch and pass on covid and it kills people.
                                I refuse the vaccine as someone who already recovered. My immunity is just as good as, if not better than, a vaccinated person's. I am not catching or passing it off.
                                That's what
                                - She

                                Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                                - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                                I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                                Stephen R. Donaldson

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