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Bow-and-arrow killings in Norway seen as an ‘act of terror’

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  • #76
    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

    No - that's REALLY a stretch.

    Nobody is arguing that.

    You're creating quite a few straw men, my friend -- nobody said "there's no point in gun control". It just needs to be a whole lot smarter and more targeted.
    Liberals seem to stink at enforcing existing gun control laws because they're too focused on the grand prize - NO guns for anybody.

    Gun free zones keep the guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens who may actually be able to stop somebody who is illegally using a gun. The most effective way to kill a "spree shooter" (as you call them) is with a gun.
    My response is to the article you posted titled "Why gun control will not solve mass killings" with the reason "Mass killers often find ways to kill even without firearms". This article is stupid because 1. the object of gun control is not to solve mass killings, it is to reduce either/both the number of mass killings and the number of people killed and 2. the existence of less generally efficient means of killing is not a reason not to want to prevent the generally most efficient means of killing. "Gun control won't solve mass killings because alternative ways to kill exist" = "why bother exterminating termites when we can't get rid of cockroaches?" When it comes to mass killing prevention policy, they are for the most part two separate issues.

    "Liberal" can describe an enormous amount of different viewpoints and considering that there's no practical way of banning guns period I don't think that's a rational fear. There are so many factors at play with relying on citizens or even police to stop a mass shooter that it shouldn't be relied upon outside of a desperate last resort. Gun free zones are the very least of our problems in spree shooting prevention.

    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Gonna take another 'stab' at this, cause there's just SO MUCH wrong with it...
    • "taking problem students into account" has proven to be a major failure.
    • The schools are governed by the liberals who do NOT want "their schools" to be thought of as problematic - they will fight any attempt to share information with police (defund the police, remember?)
    • It has been shown that many of these active shooters were KNOWN to be problems, but nobody wanted to report them.
    • ZERO effective - until the system drastically changes
    • ANY student can get a gun, legally or otherwise


    Absolutely not.

    Not difficult enough for somebody who has a V motivation. They will find a way - that's been demonstrated over and over.
    You complain that nobody reports problem students and that background checks are too incomplete, but if you think that background checks don't stop anyone from obtaining a gun why does it matter?

    Who's going to report it? The person who STOLE it?
    Or you think that the owner reporting "somebody stole my gun" makes it somehow magically disappear or end up in the possession of the police?
    How are they going to catch him? How do they know the gun he has hidden in his backpack is stolen?
    Is somebody "more dead" if killed by a stolen gun than a legal one?

    Seriously, you, like other anti-gun liberals, don't live in reality.

    Are you aware that, as of 2020, there were 393 MILLION guns in the US?
    You REALLY believe that somebody who intends to do mass carnage can't get their hands on guns?
    Perhaps you're unaware that it takes only 2-4 seconds to "swap magazines" when you're firing a semi-automatic weapon.

    Liberals come at this with banning "assault rifles" (mass shooters prefer handguns) or "high capacity magazines" (most active shooters used multiple standard magazines of 10-15 rounds each.

    Seriously, when a liberal looks at "gun control", they come at it from a total FANTASY world where they think they can simply make rules and everybody cooperates.
    That's not how it works. That's not how ANY of this works.
    If you steal my gun to use it in a mass shooting, and I wasn't killed by you and report the theft to the police, it is possible for the police to intercept you prior to the shooting if you aren't acting immediately. It's an example of what "making it more difficult" could mean. Likewise, assault rifles and high capacity magazines, regardless of their popularity with mass shooters, result in more people getting shot. If a mass shooter is forced to use a handgun, they are much more likely to have fewer victims.

    BTW, I have not once proposed or advocated for any particular gun control policy in this conversation, so I don't know what rules you think I'm making but they exist only in your head.

    Comment


    • #77
      Originally posted by Psychic Missile View Post





      If you steal my gun to use it in a mass shooting, and I wasn't killed by you and report the theft to the police, it is possible for the police to intercept you prior to the shooting if you aren't acting immediately.
      and how do you or the police know who I am or where I am?

      It's an example of what "making it more difficult" could mean. Likewise, assault rifles and high capacity magazines, regardless of their popularity with mass shooters, result in more people getting shot. If a mass shooter is forced to use a handgun, they are much more likely to have fewer victims.

      .
      That is completely false. The largest school shooting, which was Virginia Tech, was done by a dude with handguns and a bunch of 10 and 15 round magazines.

      Comment


      • #78
        Originally posted by Psychic Missile View Post
        My response is to the article you posted titled "Why gun control will not solve mass killings" with the reason "Mass killers often find ways to kill even without firearms". This article is stupid because 1. the object of gun control is not to solve mass killings, it is to reduce either/both the number of mass killings and the number of people killed and 2. the existence of less generally efficient means of killing is not a reason not to want to prevent the generally most efficient means of killing. "Gun control won't solve mass killings because alternative ways to kill exist" = "why bother exterminating termites when we can't get rid of cockroaches?" When it comes to mass killing prevention policy, they are for the most part two separate issues.
        It is an terribly naïve person who thinks, at this point, that 'gun control' will keep guns out of the hands of people who want to do mass murder.

        "Liberal" can describe an enormous amount of different viewpoints and considering that there's no practical way of banning guns period I don't think that's a rational fear. There are so many factors at play with relying on citizens or even police to stop a mass shooter that it shouldn't be relied upon outside of a desperate last resort. Gun free zones are the very least of our problems in spree shooting prevention.
        "Gun free zones" are incredibly bird-brained stupid in that they provide a killing zone where the criminal - or would be criminal - is thrilled to death that nobody else will have guns. Only a moron thinks that a criminal will recognize a "gun free zone" and not carry a gun into one.

        You complain that nobody reports problem students and that background checks are too incomplete,
        That's a distortion of my position. Please stick to what I actually say, rather than your misrepresentation of it.

        but if you think that background checks don't stop anyone from obtaining a gun why does it matter?
        Again - not my position.

        If you steal my gun to use it in a mass shooting, and I wasn't killed by you and report the theft to the police, it is possible for the police to intercept you prior to the shooting if you aren't acting immediately. It's an example of what "making it more difficult" could mean. Likewise, assault rifles and high capacity magazines, regardless of their popularity with mass shooters, result in more people getting shot. If a mass shooter is forced to use a handgun, they are much more likely to have fewer victims.
        Wow, you really have quite the active imagination.
        1. You'd have to KNOW that I stole your gun
        2. When you report a stolen gun, the police don't run out and check everybody in the vicinity for the stolen gun - it is often discovered only AFTER the shooting.
        3. You really are profoundly ignorant of mass shootings - the vast majority of them are carried out with handguns, not "assault rifles"
        4. You probably don't really know what an "assault rifle" is.
        You really should stick to something about which you actually know a thing or two.



        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

        Comment


        • #79
          Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post
          and how do you or the police know who I am or where I am?
          Well, AFTER you have shot up a bunch of students and get killed or captured, they'll run your gun to find out it was reported stolen.

          That is completely false. The largest school shooting, which was Virginia Tech, was done by a dude with handguns and a bunch of 10 and 15 round magazines.
          "Assault Rifle" sounds scarier, and those are the ones that the likes of Beto O'Rourke want to take from you because ignorant people are duped into believing that will stop school shootings.

          The whole "gun control" issue is about grabbing guns, not protecting students or anybody else. But there will always be people who "buy the con".

          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

          Comment


          • #80
            Originally posted by Psychic Missile View Post
            If you steal my gun to use it in a mass shooting...
            Let's apply some critical thinking to this, OK?
            • If I steal your gun, I am, by definition, a criminal, right? (stealing a firearm is, indeed, a crime)
            • If I steal your gun, I'm fully aware that I will be in trouble if it is found in my possession
            • If I steal your gun to use it in a mass shooting, it shows I'm capable of PLANNING
            • If I steal your gun, and am capable of planning, I'm smart enough to know I need to keep it concealed

            So, how do the police manage to get your stolen gun from me before I implement my dastardly plan?
            And what background check would reveal that I have a gun that I stole from you?

            KEEP YOUR GUNS SECURE!!!
            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

            Comment


            • #81
              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
              [/I'm considering them, and noting that most of the examples given do not involve more fatalities than the deadliest US mass shootings.
              Nobody said they did, Roy.
              Your source said that "In other countries, bombings, mass stabbings, and car attacks frequently kill more people than even the deadliest mass shootings in the United States." That would suggest that his examples would be of attacks that killed more people than the deadliest shootings in the US. But they aren't. The data do not support the conclusion.


              That wasn't the point. The point is that, if somebody wants to kill multiple people, they can without guns.
              They can. But guns make it so much easier, and lead to greater casualties..
              Last edited by Roy; 10-18-2021, 05:26 AM.
              Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

              MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
              MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

              seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                [...]

                Again, if a person demonstrates no desire to rehabilitate, that's his/her own choice.
                Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post


                Which is once again a rather over-simplistic suggestion.

                How is that in any way a "suggestion."

                I'm always still in trouble again

                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                Comment


                • #83
                  Originally posted by Roy View Post
                  Your source said that "In other countries, bombings, mass stabbings, and car attacks frequently kill more people than even the deadliest mass shootings in the United States." That would suggest that his examples would be of attacks that killed more people than the deadliest shootings in the US. But they aren't. The data do not support the conclusion.
                  Worst shooting in U.S.: 59 dead.

                  Worst Shooting in Europe: 67 dead Norway 2011 (another 8 via a car bomb)

                  Worst vehicle attack in Europe: 87 dead in France 2016

                  I can provide multiple examples of where bombings killed far more than either. For instance less than two months ago over 180 were killed due to the incredible bumbling fumbling handling of our withdrawal from Afghanistan at the Kabul airport. If you wish to dismiss that because it's Afghanistan, then how about the 194 in Madrid back in 2004?


                  I ran across an interesting chart HERE concerning mass shootings in the West between 2009-2015 which places the U.S. at #11 behind 10 European nations.


                  f441f6df-6a1e-43bb-869b-1d8e73db0e04.jpg
                  Obviously this is just a "snap shot" and if taken over a different time period, or a longer one,
                  some of these countries might not even be on it whereas the U.S. consistently would.



                  I'm always still in trouble again

                  "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                  "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                  "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                    [/INDENT]

                    How is that in any way a "suggestion."
                    It is a suggestion by Cow Poke.
                    "It ain't necessarily so
                    The things that you're liable
                    To read in the Bible
                    It ain't necessarily so
                    ."

                    Sportin' Life
                    Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                      It is a suggestion by Cow Poke.
                      Let's try that again...


                      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                      [...]

                      Again, if a person demonstrates no desire to rehabilitate, that's his/her own choice.
                      Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post


                      Which is once again a rather over-simplistic suggestion.
                      How is that in any way a "suggestion."

                      I'm always still in trouble again

                      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                        Let's try that again...




                        How is that in any way a "suggestion."
                        I am not following you down your flowery path in your attempt to derail this thread. If you want to start your own thread you know what to do.
                        "It ain't necessarily so
                        The things that you're liable
                        To read in the Bible
                        It ain't necessarily so
                        ."

                        Sportin' Life
                        Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                          I am not following you down your flowery path in your attempt to derail this thread. If you want to start your own thread you know what to do.
                          First. You are once again trying to kick someone out of a thread that you didn't start. You have a real annoying habit of trying to do that.

                          Second. did not make a "suggestion."

                          Again, if a person demonstrates no desire to rehabilitate, that's his/her own choice.


                          It takes a lot of distorting and misunderstanding to twist that into a "suggestion."

                          That was why I asked you why you mischaracterized it as such.

                          I'm always still in trouble again

                          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                          "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Originally posted by Roy View Post
                            They can. But guns make it so much easier, and lead to greater casualties..
                            Yeah, the guns jump out of houses and magically fly to schools and other places and kill people, right?

                            It's not a gun problem, Roy - it's a people problem.

                            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                            Comment


                            • #89

                              Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                              I am not following you down your flowery path in your attempt to derail this thread.


                              Oh, the Iron E!
                              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post




                                Oh, the Iron E!

                                Comment

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