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  • #46
    Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
    In Europe yes.


    Oh you are not alone in driving on the "wrong side" of the road! I understand several other countries also do likewise, some seem to be part of the old Empire though - India, Australia, Kenya.
    6a00d8341c5dea53ef0120a7a963f0970b-800wi.png
    Blue are the countries that drive on the "wrong" side of the road




    Apparently more did in Europe at one time
    39d02285-8940-4033-97db-6a1b64c6c258.jpg




    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
    "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
      Apparently more did in Europe at one time
      39d02285-8940-4033-97db-6a1b64c6c258.jpg
      Mixed?!? Those must have been fun places trying to survive.

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by Ronson View Post

        Mixed?!? Those must have been fun places trying to survive.
        Italy has long enjoyed a reputation for its crazy drivers, but I wonder how Spain is.

        And I imagine in 1922 there wasn't much congestion due to traffic... but still.



        I'm always still in trouble again

        "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
        "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
        "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
          Why do you choose that method?
          This study breaks it down better into population density, where I will say "urban vs non urban." The boundaries here represent counties, and many western counties were drawn much larger as the country aged and the geography changed. The largest blue county in California represents San Bernardino and Riverside; the rest of that county is mostly barely-inhabited desert and mountains.

          https://source.wustl.edu/2020/02/the...-in-geography/

          The divide between us: Urban-rural political differences rooted in geography
          Research finds how partisan affiliation gets shaped by people’s proximity to a city...


          urban.jpg

          Comment


          • #50
            Also seen in that map, my state of Missouri shows only three blue spots, and those are St. Louis, Kansas City and Columbia. Since there is enough rural population to offset those three cities, Missouri - as a state - has been red in elections.
            Last edited by Ronson; 10-08-2021, 08:12 AM.

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
              Italy has long enjoyed a reputation for its crazy drivers, but I wonder how Spain is.

              And I imagine in 1922 there wasn't much congestion due to traffic... but still.
              I can imagine driving down a Spanish highway and suddenly the drivers shift from right to left. AAAH!

              Actually, my guess is that those countries were transitioning in 1922. Must have been a major transition.

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by Ronson View Post

                I can imagine driving down a Spanish highway and suddenly the drivers shift from right to left. AAAH!

                Actually, my guess is that those countries were transitioning in 1922. Must have been a major transition.
                I figure that in Switzerland you basically drove on the side furthest from the cliff

                I'm always still in trouble again

                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                  I figure that in Switzerland you basically drove on the side furthest from the cliff
                  I figured in Switzerland, everyone just drives on the center line. You know, remaining neutral. They probably keep their transmissions in neutral as well; makes it hard to get anywhere.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Ronson View Post

                    This study breaks it down better into population density, where I will say "urban vs non urban." The boundaries here represent counties, and many western counties were drawn much larger as the country aged and the geography changed. The largest blue county in California represents San Bernardino and Riverside; the rest of that county is mostly barely-inhabited desert and mountains.

                    https://source.wustl.edu/2020/02/the...-in-geography/

                    The divide between us: Urban-rural political differences rooted in geography
                    Research finds how partisan affiliation gets shaped by people’s proximity to a city...

                    That is a very pertinent observation, my emphasis, "In rural, less populated areas, residents are more likely to know one another and talk with their neighbors. Those interpersonal relationships are highly influential and can create a social pressure to conform,” he said" and as noted the tendency of rural populations to be more "traditional" and "conservative" is found across many countries. Although neighbourliness is still found in many locales in cities. People know those who live in their street, block, or the surrounding streets, the area acting as a community - just as in more rural environments. ​


                    Originally posted by Ronson View Post
                    Also seen in that map, my state of Missouri shows only three blue spots, and those are St. Louis, Kansas City and Columbia. Since there is enough rural population to offset those three cities, Missouri - as a state - has been red in elections.
                    Thank you for that.

                    "It ain't necessarily so
                    The things that you're liable
                    To read in the Bible
                    It ain't necessarily so
                    ."

                    Sportin' Life
                    Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                      That is a very pertinent observation, my emphasis, "In rural, less populated areas, residents are more likely to know one another and talk with their neighbors. Those interpersonal relationships are highly influential and can create a social pressure to conform,” he said" and as noted the tendency of rural populations to be more "traditional" and "conservative" is found across many countries. Although neighbourliness is still found in many locales in cities. People know those who live in their street, block, or the surrounding streets, the area acting as a community - just as in more rural environments. ​
                      The way the study is worded actually shows some bias. Assuming there is a rural "social pressure to conform" is far fetched and is without any evidence in support. In fact, I would assume conformity is a greater pressure in higher-density areas. Driving through a rural area with a Biden bumper sticker wouldn't cause a fuss, but sporting a Trump bumper sticker in a big city might catch a bullet, IMO.

                      Also, in the U.S., there is a deep-seated distrust of remote government (which, of course, dates back to King George). In most states, city populations make decisions that affect rural areas, so resentment culminates from that. Urban centers decide when a rural area should be set aside as a parkland, or when logging should be curtailed, or hunting, or oil drilling, or anything else that might upset local economies or employment. The reverse is rarely true, that rural areas make decisions affecting cities. It is something else that needs to be considered. So when rural voters lean conservative - or anti centralized government - there are practical reasons for it. Not "social pressure to conform."

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Ronson View Post

                        Mixed?!? Those must have been fun places trying to survive.
                        They hand you your driver's license and say "Good luck!"

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Ronson View Post

                          The way the study is worded actually shows some bias. Assuming there is a rural "social pressure to conform" is far fetched and is without any evidence in support.
                          I think you might find that there has been some research undertaken in small communities on social issues. Not necessarily US communities of course.

                          Originally posted by Ronson View Post
                          In fact, I would assume conformity is a greater pressure in higher-density areas.
                          On what evidence? Large cities tend to be more "metropolitan" in attitude [although there will often be districts that are noted for their particular ethnic and/or religious groups], e.g. Williamsburg in Brooklyn.

                          Originally posted by Ronson View Post
                          Driving through a rural area with a Biden bumper sticker wouldn't cause a fuss, but sporting a Trump bumper sticker in a big city might catch a bullet, IMO.
                          Remove the names and turn those into Democrat or Republican stickers. Would the reaction necessarily be the same?

                          Originally posted by Ronson View Post
                          Also, in the U.S., there is a deep-seated distrust of remote government (which, of course, dates back to King George).
                          I think that is perhaps the root cause of so much American suspicion about government today.

                          Originally posted by Ronson View Post
                          In most states, city populations make decisions that affect rural areas, so resentment culminates from that.
                          Surely elected officials do that? And I assume the rural populations have some say in elections for local government. That their vote may be outnumbered is one of the unfortunate problems with FPTP voting systems.

                          Originally posted by Ronson View Post
                          Urban centers decide when a rural area should be set aside as a parkland, or when logging should be curtailed, or hunting, or oil drilling, or anything else that might upset local economies or employment.
                          Is there never any consultation?

                          Originally posted by Ronson View Post
                          The reverse is rarely true, that rural areas make decisions affecting cities. It is something else that needs to be considered. So when rural voters lean conservative - or anti centralized government - there are practical reasons for it. Not "social pressure to conform."
                          I can see your point re practical reasons but those reasons may not necessarily be that Democrat policies are being pushed on to a Republican leaning rural community.

                          A rural community might be antagonistic towards a Republican dominated legislature encouraging large corporations moving in and causing local pollution or residents may be angry at seeing formerly publicly accessed land being sold up for mining, quarrying, fracking etc.

                          With regard to local conformity I suspect that, particularly in certain parts of the rural USA, non church attendance might be an issue among neighbours, and perhaps alternative ways of living. Of course given the sheer size of some US states, residents in rural communities might actually live at some considerable distance from one another and may only congregate with their neighbours when they visit the nearest town or attend some community event.

                          "It ain't necessarily so
                          The things that you're liable
                          To read in the Bible
                          It ain't necessarily so
                          ."

                          Sportin' Life
                          Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                            I think you might find that there has been some research undertaken in small communities on social issues. Not necessarily US communities of course.

                            On what evidence? Large cities tend to be more "metropolitan" in attitude [although there will often be districts that are noted for their particular ethnic and/or religious groups], e.g. Williamsburg in Brooklyn.
                            That's what I asked about the reverse, "on what evidence" is there that rural dwellers (or anyone for that matter) chooses politics based on peer pressure. At least when it comes to urban areas, there are more people pressed together to make more of a peer-pressure difference.

                            Remove the names and turn those into Democrat or Republican stickers. Would the reaction necessarily be the same?
                            Not in my area. I can't say for urban areas.

                            I think that is perhaps the root cause of so much American suspicion about government today.

                            Surely elected officials do that? And I assume the rural populations have some say in elections for local government. That their vote may be outnumbered is one of the unfortunate problems with FPTP voting systems.
                            Actually, that moves up more toward the federal government. It owns most of the land and makes the decisions. Right now, a Democrat president resides over a Democrat Congress. They can do damage to rural areas that aren't easily reversed if the opposition takes control.

                            Is there never any consultation?
                            IMO, phony ones. They hold "town hall" meetings and let the locals vent, then they proceed with whatever they were going to do in the first place. It is theater.

                            I can see your point re practical reasons but those reasons may not necessarily be that Democrat policies are being pushed on to a Republican leaning rural community.

                            A rural community might be antagonistic towards a Republican dominated legislature encouraging large corporations moving in and causing local pollution or residents may be angry at seeing formerly publicly accessed land being sold up for mining, quarrying, fracking etc.
                            Sometimes, but less often. Conservatives seek local control of those issues and they aren't as often dictated by Republicans in DC.

                            With regard to local conformity I suspect that, particularly in certain parts of the rural USA, non church attendance might be an issue among neighbours, and perhaps alternative ways of living. Of course given the sheer size of some US states, residents in rural communities might actually live at some considerable distance from one another and may only congregate with their neighbours when they visit the nearest town or attend some community event.
                            Perhaps. Those aren't issues where I am.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Ronson View Post

                              That's what I asked about the reverse, "on what evidence" is there that rural dwellers (or anyone for that matter) chooses politics based on peer pressure. At least when it comes to urban areas, there are more people pressed together to make more of a peer-pressure difference.
                              Yep, and really you just need to talk to any Black Republican who lives in an urban area to hear just how strong that peer-pressure is to be a Democrat, just among their own Black community.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post
                                Yep, and really you just need to talk to any Black Republican who lives in an urban area to hear just how strong that peer-pressure is to be a Democrat, just among their own Black community.
                                Man, is that ever true! Black Republicans are positively harassed and threatened not only by black Democrats, but by the MSM. They are treated like traitors by those who operate the victimization cult. I really feel sorry for them because they put up with more persecution than most anyone else in this country.

                                Comment

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