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  • Abolish the FBI

    Abolish the FBI

    It will never happen, of course, because it's such an engrained institution, but many believe the FBI is so corrupt that it is beyond reformation.

    How much more do we need to learn about 2016 to realize the agency is a disaster?

    In ignoring the latest John Durham indictment, most of the media and official Washington are ignoring the elephant between its lines: the Federal Bureau of Investigation.

    Mr. Durham, the special counsel appointed to investigate the government’s handling of the Russia collusion mess, levels a single criminal charge against Michael Sussmann, then a lawyer for the Democrat-linked firm Perkins Coie. In delivering to the FBI fanciful evidence of Trump-Russia collusion a few weeks before the 2016 election, Mr. Sussmann is alleged to have lied to the FBI’s chief lawyer, James Baker, claiming he was acting on his own behalf and not as a paid agent of the Clinton campaign.

    Already you might be rolling your eyes. Mr. Durham provides ample reason in his own indictment for why the FBI would have known exactly whom Mr. Sussmann was working for. If Mr. Sussmann didn’t lie at the time, Mr. Baker may have lied since about what transpired between him and Mr. Sussmann. Either way, we are free to suspect the FBI would have found it useful to be protected from inconvenient knowledge about the Clinton campaign’s role. The same FBI then was busy ignoring the political antecedents of the Steele dossier, also financed by Mr. Sussmann’s law firm on behalf of the Clinton campaign, information that the FBI would shortly withhold from a surveillance court in pursuit of a warrant to spy on Trump pilot fish Carter Page.

    Mr. Durham, in describing the Sept. 19, 2016, meeting with Mr. Baker, suggests that a properly informed FBI might have thought twice before opening an investigation into Mr. Sussmann’s phony story about the Trump Organization and Russia’s Alfa Bank. This is a way also of saying the FBI might have found it harder to proceed without the political deniability that Mr. Sussmann’s alleged statement provided.

    At this late date, none of this can be consumed without recognizing that the FBI was already hip-deep in the 2016 election. It began a few weeks earlier with Director James Comey’s insubordinate, improper (according to the Justice Department’s own inspector general) intervention in the Hillary email case. We learned much later that Mr. Comey justified this unprecedented action by referring to secret Russian “intelligence” that his FBI colleagues considered a red herring and possible Russian disinformation. Your eyes should really be

    Mr. Comey thereupon created the preposterous jam for himself when new information surfaced in the Hillary case, which led him to reopen the case shortly before Election Day and likely tipped the race to Mr. Trump. Of course the “new information” turned out to be a nothingburger. Worse, the information had been sitting unnoticed in the FBI’s hands for weeks.

    These antic actions, along with the subsequent FBI leakfest aimed at undermining the president it just helped to elect, might be written off as a singular consequence of Mr. Comey’s overweened sense of importance.

    But this doesn’t explain the FBI’s top counterintelligence deputy, Peter Strzok, engaging in compromising political banter on an FBI network while playing a central role in the FBI’s most politically sensitive investigations. It doesn’t explain FBI lawyer Kevin Clinesmith’s criminal act of falsifying agency submissions to the surveillance court.

    Ask yourself: In what way, in anyone’s memory, has the FBI covered itself in glory? The Larry Nassar case, in which it failed to pursue a serial abuser of teenage gymnasts? The Noor Salman case, in which it trumped up a failed prosecution of the innocent and abused wife of the Orlando nightclub shooter? The Hatfill case, in which it attempted to railroad an innocent scientist over the 2001 anthrax attacks?

    Ironically, Hollywood is now the FBI’s biggest devotee because the agency’s screw-ups are fodder for its best movies. The FBI’s role in the assassination of Black Panther Fred Hampton was the subject of “Judas and the Black Messiah.” Its persecution of an innocent security guard in the Atlanta Olympics bombing was the theme of “ Richard Jewell. ” Its cosseting of the criminal psychopath Whitey Bulger was a central pillar of the Johnny Depp film “Black Mass.”

    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Abolish the FBI

    It will never happen, of course, because it's such an engrained institution, but many believe the FBI is so corrupt that it is beyond reformation.

    How much more do we need to learn about 2016 to realize the agency is a disaster?

    In ignoring the latest John Durham indictment, most of the media and official Washington are ignoring the elephant between its lines: the Federal Bureau of Investigation.

    Mr. Durham, the special counsel appointed to investigate the government’s handling of the Russia collusion mess, levels a single criminal charge against Michael Sussmann, then a lawyer for the Democrat-linked firm Perkins Coie. In delivering to the FBI fanciful evidence of Trump-Russia collusion a few weeks before the 2016 election, Mr. Sussmann is alleged to have lied to the FBI’s chief lawyer, James Baker, claiming he was acting on his own behalf and not as a paid agent of the Clinton campaign.

    Already you might be rolling your eyes. Mr. Durham provides ample reason in his own indictment for why the FBI would have known exactly whom Mr. Sussmann was working for. If Mr. Sussmann didn’t lie at the time, Mr. Baker may have lied since about what transpired between him and Mr. Sussmann. Either way, we are free to suspect the FBI would have found it useful to be protected from inconvenient knowledge about the Clinton campaign’s role. The same FBI then was busy ignoring the political antecedents of the Steele dossier, also financed by Mr. Sussmann’s law firm on behalf of the Clinton campaign, information that the FBI would shortly withhold from a surveillance court in pursuit of a warrant to spy on Trump pilot fish Carter Page.

    Mr. Durham, in describing the Sept. 19, 2016, meeting with Mr. Baker, suggests that a properly informed FBI might have thought twice before opening an investigation into Mr. Sussmann’s phony story about the Trump Organization and Russia’s Alfa Bank. This is a way also of saying the FBI might have found it harder to proceed without the political deniability that Mr. Sussmann’s alleged statement provided.

    At this late date, none of this can be consumed without recognizing that the FBI was already hip-deep in the 2016 election. It began a few weeks earlier with Director James Comey’s insubordinate, improper (according to the Justice Department’s own inspector general) intervention in the Hillary email case. We learned much later that Mr. Comey justified this unprecedented action by referring to secret Russian “intelligence” that his FBI colleagues considered a red herring and possible Russian disinformation. Your eyes should really be

    Mr. Comey thereupon created the preposterous jam for himself when new information surfaced in the Hillary case, which led him to reopen the case shortly before Election Day and likely tipped the race to Mr. Trump. Of course the “new information” turned out to be a nothingburger. Worse, the information had been sitting unnoticed in the FBI’s hands for weeks.

    These antic actions, along with the subsequent FBI leakfest aimed at undermining the president it just helped to elect, might be written off as a singular consequence of Mr. Comey’s overweened sense of importance.

    But this doesn’t explain the FBI’s top counterintelligence deputy, Peter Strzok, engaging in compromising political banter on an FBI network while playing a central role in the FBI’s most politically sensitive investigations. It doesn’t explain FBI lawyer Kevin Clinesmith’s criminal act of falsifying agency submissions to the surveillance court.

    Ask yourself: In what way, in anyone’s memory, has the FBI covered itself in glory? The Larry Nassar case, in which it failed to pursue a serial abuser of teenage gymnasts? The Noor Salman case, in which it trumped up a failed prosecution of the innocent and abused wife of the Orlando nightclub shooter? The Hatfill case, in which it attempted to railroad an innocent scientist over the 2001 anthrax attacks?

    Ironically, Hollywood is now the FBI’s biggest devotee because the agency’s screw-ups are fodder for its best movies. The FBI’s role in the assassination of Black Panther Fred Hampton was the subject of “Judas and the Black Messiah.” Its persecution of an innocent security guard in the Atlanta Olympics bombing was the theme of “ Richard Jewell. ” Its cosseting of the criminal psychopath Whitey Bulger was a central pillar of the Johnny Depp film “Black Mass.”
    The FBI was able to reorganize itself after Hoover. I don't know if there's the wherewithal to do it again.

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
    "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

    Comment


    • #3
      If there's any LE agency that really does need to be "defunded"...
      Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

      Beige Nationalist.

      "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

      Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post
        If there's any LE agency that really does need to be "defunded"...
        In most cases, I think they need to be de-Unioned.

        But the closer the agency is to those who fund it --- local governments, the more likely it is for it to work.
        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

        Comment


        • #5
          If we abolished the FBI, DHS, which is actually probably worse, would just fill in the void...

          DHS Touts Counter-Domestic Extremism Plan; Rights Groups Cite Threats To Civil Liberties

          "What am I doing here?" -- Joe Biden 2021

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by seanD View Post
            If we abolished the FBI, DHS, which is actually probably worse, would just fill in the void...

            DHS Touts Counter-Domestic Extremism Plan; Rights Groups Cite Threats To Civil Liberties
            Right. Need to simultaneously dump the FBI, CIA, DHS, NSA, and probably half a dozen others.
            Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

            Beige Nationalist.

            "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

            Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post

              Right. Need to simultaneously dump the FBI, CIA, DHS, NSA, and probably half a dozen others.
              Back when the others at least still had the reputation for integrity and honesty the one group none of them wanted anything to do with... the DEA.

              I'm always still in trouble again

              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
              "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                Back when the others at least still had the reputation for integrity and honesty the one group none of them wanted anything to do with... the DEA.
                Back in my cop days many years ago, the DEA was the only federal agency...

                lemme back up

                you see these "turf wars" on TV between agencies and jurisdictions.

                Our department worked really well with the Sheriff's Department, State Police, FBI.... the only one that seemed to have no regard for us was the DEA.
                They would set up operations in our area and not coordinate - not even tell us they were there - which, on more than a few occasions, could have gotten some of us or them killed.

                Our local FBI guys were GREAT --- you never had a sense that they were there to "take over" or be condescending, but like one guy put it "we have way better tools and toys than you do, so you just tell me what you want and where you want it and I'll make it happen".
                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                  Back in my cop days many years ago, the DEA was the only federal agency...

                  lemme back up

                  you see these "turf wars" on TV between agencies and jurisdictions.

                  Our department worked really well with the Sheriff's Department, State Police, FBI.... the only one that seemed to have no regard for us was the DEA.
                  They would set up operations in our area and not coordinate - not even tell us they were there - which, on more than a few occasions, could have gotten some of us or them killed.

                  Our local FBI guys were GREAT --- you never had a sense that they were there to "take over" or be condescending, but like one guy put it "we have way better tools and toys than you do, so you just tell me what you want and where you want it and I'll make it happen".
                  FWIU the DEA agents were largely seen as thugs who's actions made things very difficult for other agencies working somewhere -- especially overseas.

                  I'm always still in trouble again

                  "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                  "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                  "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                    FWIU the DEA agents were largely seen as thugs who's actions made things very difficult for other agencies working somewhere -- especially overseas.
                    And because they worked with drugs, drug dealers, and the lowest scum of the earth, there was always boatloads of money, tons of drugs, all kinds of shady business -- it was really easy for them to cross the line and dip their pen, so to speak, in company ink.
                    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post

                      Right. Need to simultaneously dump the FBI, CIA, DHS, NSA, and probably half a dozen others.
                      Basically, our entire government needs to be reformed and returned to strict Constitutionalism. No more agencies filled with unelected bureaucrats who have the ability to essentially rule by fiat.
                      Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                      But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                      Than a fool in the eyes of God


                      From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post

                        Right. Need to simultaneously dump the FBI, CIA, DHS, NSA, and probably half a dozen others.
                        What the heck. Why not just dump the whole federal government, and just have 50 independent states?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Stoic View Post

                          What the heck. Why not just dump the whole federal government, and just have 50 independent states?
                          Are you at all familiar with the US Constitution?
                          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                          Than a fool in the eyes of God


                          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                            Are you at all familiar with the US Constitution?
                            Quite. Did you have a question about it?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Stoic View Post

                              Quite. Did you have a question about it?
                              If I did have questions, I'd ask someone who doesn't think that sovereign states with a limited federal government is a radical idea, seeing how that's precisely what the Constitution establishes.
                              Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                              But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                              Than a fool in the eyes of God


                              From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                              Comment

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