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When a Man (used to be a woman) Comes to Church

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  • When a Man (used to be a woman) Comes to Church

    This is picked up from another thread where H_A APPEARS to be interested in an actual discussion, so NO TOLERANCE in this thread for derailing, spatting, trolling or goofing off, eh?

    VERY serious topic - and even though it's about Church - that's not the main emphasis. It's about the whole sex-reassignment / gender fluidity / gender confusion thing.

    So...

    Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
    I am fairly certain I have made similar remarks in the past.

    At present there is still no complete understanding as to what is the cause.

    As to major surgery the issue then arises as to what happens [particularly given that we both seem to consider the present situation may well be to some extent a "fashion trend"] when the individual realises they have made a terrible mistake?
    Such a case...

    I have been working with a fellow pastor - a younger less experienced man - who had something happen in his church, about which nothing was ever taught in seminary.

    A man and his wife and their son began visiting his church.
    They appeared to be very happy there, and before long, became involved in all aspects of ministry and fellowship.
    They were well accepted and "fit in" in so many ways.

    The man enjoyed youth ministry, and when time came for summer camp (a few months ago) he volunteered to go as a boy's counselor.
    Everybody was good with that, and off they went to camp.

    While they were gone, somebody was looking at the man's social media, and was absolutely shocked to discover this man used to be a woman.
    The man had a full beard, acted like a man, talked like a man, nobody would ever have guessed in a million years he used to be a woman.
    This person who made the discovery sent an email blast to a bunch of other people in the church with links to the social media account of the "transition".

    The pastor was absolutely blindsided, and was totally at a loss as to how to proceed.

    When they got back from camp, the pastor asked the man to meet with him, and told him the reason.

    To his credit, the man was fully cooperative, and appears to have sincerely believed there was nothing wrong with him going to camp as a boy's counselor, since he was, indeed, a man.

    As the pastor and this man began to talk - again to the man's credit - he realized the terrible position in which he placed the pastor, and was truly repentant of it, even volunteering to confess his blunder before the church. He admitted that - shortly after the "transition", he began to think he had made a serious mistake, but decided to accept the consequences and continue to live his life as a man. The woman he married knew all about it, and the son is adopted.

    This young pastor, to HIS credit, sought counsel, and exercised wisdom, and realized it was his responsibility to minister to this family that they had fully accepted prior to finding out about his transition.

    As a church, they are still working through the challenge, and all kinds of new questions arise.

    In the process, doing tons of research, we found two very valuable resources, which I'm still reading...

    gender.jpg

    After several sessions, the man seems to realize he made a terrible mistake, and should have sought better counseling, but there "is no going back".

    Reportedly, the Church is working through this, and so far, the man and his family are staying put, but much less engaged then they had been.




    Attached Files
    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

  • #2
    We had a lesbian couple coming to our church for a few years. They knew our beliefs and refrained from open affection with each other or advocating for their lifestyle. But they were welcomed. Sadly they were hiking near a waterfall and one slipped and fell to her death. The other girl came for a while more then we lost track of her...
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by seer View Post
      We had a lesbian couple coming to our church for a few years. They knew our beliefs and refrained from open affection with each other or advocating for their lifestyle. But they were welcomed. Sadly they were hiking near a waterfall and one slipped and fell to her death. The other girl came for a while more then we lost track of her...
      Years ago, we had a homosexual couple attending when it wasn't quite as common as it now is. Some questioned why we allowed them to attend. I said I WANT people like that to hear the Word of God! And as long as they're not causing trouble, who knows - they might even see the error of their ways.

      And, yeah - they knew our position on things like that, and still came. Bless their hearts! (and I mean that sincerely)
      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

        Years ago, we had a homosexual couple attending when it wasn't quite as common as it now is. Some questioned why we allowed them to attend. I said I WANT people like that to hear the Word of God! And as long as they're not causing trouble, who knows - they might even see the error of their ways.

        And, yeah - they knew our position on things like that, and still came. Bless their hearts! (and I mean that sincerely)
        I don't like throwing sinners out of church, that seems - well - unchristian. On the other hand over the years we had two deacons who left their spouses - for a live in boy friend or girl friend. They were allowed to stay but lost their leadership positions. That made them quite angry - they ended up leaving. Good by...
        Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

        Comment


        • #5
          I guess the key is to preach Christ and His gospel, and if people are offended by it, that is their problem. We must show compassion for the sinner, as all of us were and are, but must make scripture clear, even on issues that may cause them to leave. Sin has to be confronted.



          The dilemma in the op is, indeed, a difficult one.


          Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by seer View Post
            I don't like throwing sinners out of church, that seems - well - unchristian. On the other hand over the years we had two deacons who left their spouses - for a live in boy friend or girl friend. They were allowed to stay but lost their leadership positions. That made them quite angry - they ended up leaving. Good by...
            Sounds about right. We have a "living together not married" couple in our church. I have been criticized for not calling them out on it. Fact is, they know how I believe on that, but they also know I love them and wish they'd get married or part. Meanwhile, I minister to them like I do any other sinner in my church.
            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by seer View Post

              I don't like throwing sinners out of church, that seems - well - unchristian. On the other hand over the years we had two deacons who left their spouses - for a live in boy friend or girl friend. They were allowed to stay but lost their leadership positions. That made them quite angry - they ended up leaving. Good by...
              There is a difference of the requirements when one is a leader versus just a member. I think removing a sinning leader from their position is the right thing to do.

              Besides if we threw all the sinners out of church, there would be no one left.
              Last edited by Thoughtful Monk; 09-24-2021, 03:01 PM. Reason: Add last sentence
              "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

              "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by mossrose View Post
                I guess the key is to preach Christ and His gospel, and if people are offended by it, that is their problem. We must show compassion for the sinner, as all of us were and are, but must make scripture clear, even on issues that may cause them to leave. Sin has to be confronted.



                The dilemma in the op is, indeed, a difficult one.
                One of the most difficult across which I have come.
                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I'm honestly confused by gender confusion. How did gender stop meaning biological sex? I do think some people forget to use grace though. They need Jesus also.
                  If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Well....we had a homosexual couple attend our church a few times. This was, I think the first time for many of us. But we already knew to allow them in...it was God's will for all to hear the Message It was pretty obvious the female looking one was a man. I don't recall if I I even had the opportunity to greet them in passing. They did challenge the pastor during our adult Sunday class. He responded quietly that salvation was for all since all have sinned. They attended a few times after that then...no more.
                    Watch your links! http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/fa...corumetiquette

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by DesertBerean View Post
                      Well....we had a homosexual couple attend our church a few times. This was, I think the first time for many of us. But we already knew to allow them in...it was God's will for all to hear the Message It was pretty obvious the female looking one was a man. I don't recall if I I even had the opportunity to greet them in passing. They did challenge the pastor during our adult Sunday class. He responded quietly that salvation was for all since all have sinned. They attended a few times after that then...no more.
                      The way I see it, treating people as welcome guests is not a problem, and proper conduct. What they do about the hospitality is up to them. Until now I hadn't given the idea of participation in classes any thought - so it is a matter to investigate.
                      sigpic1 Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                        This is picked up from another thread where H_A APPEARS to be interested in an actual discussion, so NO TOLERANCE in this thread for derailing, spatting, trolling or goofing off, eh?

                        VERY serious topic - and even though it's about Church - that's not the main emphasis. It's about the whole sex-reassignment / gender fluidity / gender confusion thing.

                        So...



                        Such a case...

                        I have been working with a fellow pastor - a younger less experienced man - who had something happen in his church, about which nothing was ever taught in seminary.

                        A man and his wife and their son began visiting his church.
                        They appeared to be very happy there, and before long, became involved in all aspects of ministry and fellowship.
                        They were well accepted and "fit in" in so many ways.

                        The man enjoyed youth ministry, and when time came for summer camp (a few months ago) he volunteered to go as a boy's counselor.
                        Everybody was good with that, and off they went to camp.

                        While they were gone, somebody was looking at the man's social media, and was absolutely shocked to discover this man used to be a woman.
                        The man had a full beard, acted like a man, talked like a man, nobody would ever have guessed in a million years he used to be a woman.
                        This person who made the discovery sent an email blast to a bunch of other people in the church with links to the social media account of the "transition".

                        The pastor was absolutely blindsided, and was totally at a loss as to how to proceed.

                        When they got back from camp, the pastor asked the man to meet with him, and told him the reason.

                        To his credit, the man was fully cooperative, and appears to have sincerely believed there was nothing wrong with him going to camp as a boy's counselor, since he was, indeed, a man.

                        As the pastor and this man began to talk - again to the man's credit - he realized the terrible position in which he placed the pastor, and was truly repentant of it, even volunteering to confess his blunder before the church. He admitted that - shortly after the "transition", he began to think he had made a serious mistake, but decided to accept the consequences and continue to live his life as a man. The woman he married knew all about it, and the son is adopted.

                        This young pastor, to HIS credit, sought counsel, and exercised wisdom, and realized it was his responsibility to minister to this family that they had fully accepted prior to finding out about his transition.

                        As a church, they are still working through the challenge, and all kinds of new questions arise.

                        In the process, doing tons of research, we found two very valuable resources, which I'm still reading...

                        gender.jpg

                        After several sessions, the man seems to realize he made a terrible mistake, and should have sought better counseling, but there "is no going back".

                        Reportedly, the Church is working through this, and so far, the man and his family are staying put, but much less engaged then they had been.



                        An interesting case but the reaction seems rather overblown. Is it imperative that a counsellor be of the same biological sex? What was the precise nature of the role of counsellor at this camp?

                        It is hardly unknown for other counsellors as well as therapists. analysts etc. to work with patients of both sexes.
                        "It ain't necessarily so
                        The things that you're liable
                        To read in the Bible
                        It ain't necessarily so
                        ."

                        Sportin' Life
                        Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by seer View Post
                          I don't like throwing sinners out of church, that seems - well - unchristian. On the other hand over the years we had two deacons who left their spouses - for a live in boy friend or girl friend. They were allowed to stay but lost their leadership positions. That made them quite angry - they ended up leaving. Good by...
                          I agree in that I'm loathe to kick anyone out in that I really believe that a church is like a hospital for sinners.

                          There is a difference between a person in a position of authority and another member who isn't.

                          There is a difference between continuing in sin and flaunting your lifestyle.

                          I think those two factors ought to always be kept in mind before proceeding with how to deal with such members.







                          I'm always still in trouble again

                          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                          "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                            An interesting case but the reaction seems rather overblown. Is it imperative that a counsellor be of the same biological sex? What was the precise nature of the role of counsellor at this camp?

                            It is hardly unknown for other counsellors as well as therapists. analysts etc. to work with patients of both sexes.
                            That’s not the point of the story.


                            Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by mossrose View Post

                              That’s not the point of the story.
                              What is it then?
                              "It ain't necessarily so
                              The things that you're liable
                              To read in the Bible
                              It ain't necessarily so
                              ."

                              Sportin' Life
                              Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                              Comment

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