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Irondome Defunding

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post

    No, they're 'happy' to have second class citizens that don't have the same rights as Jewish Israelis.
    https://www.jstor.org/stable/43946930

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...iety-quicktake

    https://abcnews.go.com/International...ry?id=77741627

    Israel has made it more than clear that if they all 'live together as Israeli citizens', then some citizens will be more 'equal' than others.
    And Israel has never declared its borders.

    There are extremist nationalist fanatics who sincerely believe that Genesis 15.18 should apply to modern Israel.
    "It ain't necessarily so
    The things that you're liable
    To read in the Bible
    It ain't necessarily so
    ."

    Sportin' Life
    Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by tabibito View Post

      The information I have available indicates that Israel has targetted buildings in Gaza from which attacks have been launched against Israel.
      That does tend to be their claims after they wipe out entire city blocks. How convenient of an excuse for their atrocities, huh?
      Destroying those buildings has a concommitent effect on water reticulation, sewage, and electricity supplies.
      Ahem :https://reliefweb.int/report/occupie...cess-clean-and

      "Regularly razing" would seem to be mostly a result of regularly being fired upon.
      The 'regularly being fired upon would seem to be mostly a result of, you know, the whole bombing, decimation of families, destruction of homes, settlement, etc..

      I can recall a time when Israel sent a relief convoy to Palestine only to see it bombarded and prevented from delivering the goods by Palestinian attack, and another incident where power supplies to Palestine were cut by Palestinian activists (sabotage of the power plant) - with follow up protests about how Israel was acting with prejudice against Palestine.

      Drawing on a BBC write up

      The flotilla, under the banner of IHH (a humanitarian aid agency) was given to offer to offload at an Israeli port from whence Israel would allow transfer of approved goods by road (yup, reason for a great deal of scepticism on that one.)

      "The Israeli government says the IHH is closely linked to the Palestinian Islamist movement Hamas, which it views as a terrorist group, and is a member of another organisation, the Union of the Good, which supports suicide bombings. However, the Turkish government regards the IHH as a legitimate charity, and had urged Israel to let the flotilla through." Terrorist activity under the banner of humanitarian aid is nothing unusual, and Israel doesn't have a record of making such pronouncements lightly.

      Information to hand about the killing of ten persons aboard the Mavi Marmara states that they were "Turkish Activists." The deaths were sustained during a gun battle, so declaring them murders (only almost) goes beyond a reasonable assessment. Do humanitarian aid personnel usually go armed aboard ships? (I don't know.) Conflicting details of who actually instigated the gun battle - with no information available to determine the facts. Given that Israel had violated international law in intercepting the ships where they did, it is reasonable to consider Israel guilty of piracy on that one.

      Israel acted in violation of international law - had they waited until the ships entered Israeli territorial waters, that would not be the case. (I don't know whether the ships could have avoided Israeli waters or not.)
      The people on the ship did not have guns. Their 'weapons' were pieces of metal from the ship, and knives from they galley, IIRC. They were gunned down. Interesting to see the attempts by your source to rewrite history and use a term like 'gun battle', as if one side with guns and the other side without is a 'gun battle'. Simply disgusting.

      According to the actual UN report after investigating they found the majority of those killed, had been killed "in a manner consistent with an extra-legal, arbitrary and summary execution."
      "So when you actually get the virus, you're going to start producing antibodies against multiple pieces of the virus. So, your antibodies are probably better at that point than the vaccination."
      - Pfizer Scientist Chris Croce

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post

        I know exactly what it means, son. Perhaps you should educate yourself, H_A. I'll help you out, even.

        Let's go with a super simple Wikipedia definition for ya.

        "Ethnic cleansing is the systematic forced removal of ethnic, racial, and religious groups from a given area, often with the intent of making a region ethnically homogeneous. Along with direct removal, such as extermination, deportation or population transfer, it also includes indirect methods aimed at forced migration by coercing the victim group to flee and preventing its return, such as murder, rape, and property destruction."

        SO lesse:

        1. systematic forced removal of ethnic group - Check off that box, unless you want to deny the bulldozing of Palestinian homes and businesses, destruction of their olive trees that they grow for sale of olives and olive oil, etc.

        2. Intent of making the region ethnically homogenous - Check of that box - the bulldozing of those homes and businesses is done to set up Jewish settlements (those Jewish settlers are known for terrorizing Islamic and Christian Palestinians, BTW)

        3. Direct removal: check off that box, they're directly forcing them off their lands and out of their homes and even bulldozing people who stand in the way.

        4. indirect methods: check off that box with the property destruction, arson, destruction of agriculture, shutting off of water, checkpoints to even leave your own village and travel across your own country, requirements of permits to farm your own land, requirements of getting a permit to even travel etc.

        So looks like it checks all the boxes pretty darn firmly. Maybe you should read a book. Preferably a dictionary, given you want to claim someone doesn't know what a word means when it's clear that it is you that does not grasp the word meaning.
        Well, sure, you can check off all your boxes if you stretch the facts a little. Or a lot.
        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
        Than a fool in the eyes of God


        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by tabibito View Post
          Re the decision to discontinue American funding of Iron-dome


          Latest reports indicate that you were right.
          Indeed, I actually made a post very early in the thread after my prediction:
          Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post

          As I predicted, the Dem Rosa DeLauro has already rushed to push a separate bill like a good little life-long minion of the Israel lobby: https://www.politico.com/news/2021/0...on-dome-513648

          SMH. What a complete and utter waste of money we don't have and don't have the ability to pay back. Despicable.
          "So when you actually get the virus, you're going to start producing antibodies against multiple pieces of the virus. So, your antibodies are probably better at that point than the vaccination."
          - Pfizer Scientist Chris Croce

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

            Well, sure, you can check off all your boxes if you stretch the facts a little. Or a lot.
            If the facts were stretched, you could show how they were stretched. But they weren't, and thus you can't, so you just make this weak comment without evidence. Every SINGLE thing I stated there is OBSERVABLE FACT.
            "So when you actually get the virus, you're going to start producing antibodies against multiple pieces of the virus. So, your antibodies are probably better at that point than the vaccination."
            - Pfizer Scientist Chris Croce

            Comment


            • #51
              Eh, the fact that it made that gormless twit AOC get all weepy is enough reason to celebrate Iron Dome getting its funding.
              Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

              Beige Nationalist.

              "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

              Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post
                Eh, the fact that it made that gormless twit AOC get all weepy is enough reason to celebrate Iron Dome getting its funding.
                She was faking, the phony that she is, making sure she put on a visual show for her gullible social media cult following.
                "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post

                  WOw, I'd never have pegged you for being so dense that you think opposing Israel's policies of apartheid and ethnic cleansing against the Palestinians makes one an 'anti-semite'. Now that's a level of brainwashing that takes some effort to achieve. Here's a hint: actual Israelis, as well as Jews around the world, oppose what the country has been doing for decades. That doesn't make them self-hating anti-semites, that makes them human beings with a working conscience and the ability to recognize wrongful and atrocious acts by a government. But thanks for showing how far down the rabbit hole you are that your kneejerk response to even the slightest criticism of Israel is "you're an anti-Semite". Very revealing.
                  That you think Israel is engaged in "ethnic cleansing" and "apartheid" is also very revealing. Criticizing policies doesn't necessitate those horrible labels that actually mean something. That you went for the worst possible description when criticizing what you THINK is happening there is very revealing.
                  That's what
                  - She

                  Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                  - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                  I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                  Stephen R. Donaldson

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                    He is not an anti-Semite. This is one of the few topics on which Gondwanaland and I share opinions.

                    One can criticise the politics of the Israeli state without being against the Israeli people. Plenty of Jews inside and outside Israel do that.

                    Do you consider them to be anti-Semites?
                    If they use terms like "ethnic cleansing" and "apartheid"... absolutely. I put them in the same boat as those calling Trump Hitler. It makes a literal mockery of those who have actually lived through those horrors.
                    That's what
                    - She

                    Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                    - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                    I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                    Stephen R. Donaldson

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post

                      If they use terms like "ethnic cleansing" and "apartheid"... absolutely. I put them in the same boat as those calling Trump Hitler. It makes a literal mockery of those who have actually lived through those horrors.
                      How do you imagine those West Bank settlements get built? Where do you imagine the previous occupants of those areas go?

                      As for some of Israel's laws, please note that Haaretz journalists also take issue and use the same terms https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.pre...-law-1.9921372

                      Or is Gideon Levy another anti-Semite?
                      "It ain't necessarily so
                      The things that you're liable
                      To read in the Bible
                      It ain't necessarily so
                      ."

                      Sportin' Life
                      Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
                        It makes a literal mockery of those who have actually lived through those horrors.
                        There are very few individuals still alive who did live through the Holocaust.

                        The question is that horrific and obscene although that event was, and and it should never be forgotten [including the memory of the other five million or so individuals murdered by the Nazis], for how much longer are some groups and individuals going to use that atrocity as a means to silence any criticism of Israel?
                        "It ain't necessarily so
                        The things that you're liable
                        To read in the Bible
                        It ain't necessarily so
                        ."

                        Sportin' Life
                        Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post

                          That you think Israel is engaged in "ethnic cleansing" and "apartheid" is also very revealing.
                          Basic observations of reality do tend to be revealing. I already went into detail how their policies meet the definition of ethnic cleansing. If you have an issue with it, go address that and show me where I'm wrong.

                          As to apartheid, would you like me link to numerous Jewish people, especially Jewish South Africans who lived through Apartheid, and who even resisted and fought against Apartheid, who state that they are seeing the exact same sort of policies being used by Israel toward the Palestinians?

                          Criticizing policies doesn't necessitate those horrible labels that actually mean something. That you went for the worst possible description when criticizing what you THINK is happening there is very revealing.
                          No, I could have gone far worse than those two. Straight up genocide and behaving like the Nazis, for example, is a place I could have gone for the 'worst possible description'.

                          I went for things that are backed up directly by basic facts. If you disagree, then show me what I got wrong.
                          "So when you actually get the virus, you're going to start producing antibodies against multiple pieces of the virus. So, your antibodies are probably better at that point than the vaccination."
                          - Pfizer Scientist Chris Croce

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                            There are very few individuals still alive who did live through the Holocaust.

                            The question is that horrific and obscene although that event was, and and it should never be forgotten [including the memory of the other five million or so individuals murdered by the Nazis], for how much longer are some groups and individuals going to use that atrocity as a means to silence any criticism of Israel?
                            A German who doesn't like Jews and wants them to stop using the Holocaust as an excuse, why am I not surprised?

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Sparko View Post

                              A German who doesn't like Jews and wants them to stop using the Holocaust as an excuse, why am I not surprised?
                              That is not what I wrote but you have written is a classic example of trolling i.e. deliberately twisting what someone else has written.
                              "It ain't necessarily so
                              The things that you're liable
                              To read in the Bible
                              It ain't necessarily so
                              ."

                              Sportin' Life
                              Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post

                                If they use terms like "ethnic cleansing" and "apartheid"... absolutely. I put them in the same boat as those calling Trump Hitler. It makes a literal mockery of those who have actually lived through those horrors.
                                I see you've abandoned your BS 'anti-semite' crap. Good.

                                But since you want to throw down, let's go.

                                Let's go with a super simple Wikipedia definition for ya.

                                "Ethnic cleansing is the systematic forced removal of ethnic, racial, and religious groups from a given area, often with the intent of making a region ethnically homogeneous. Along with direct removal, such as extermination, deportation or population transfer, it also includes indirect methods aimed at forced migration by coercing the victim group to flee and preventing its return, such as murder, rape, and property destruction."

                                SO lesse:

                                1. systematic forced removal of ethnic group - Check off that box, unless you want to deny the bulldozing of Palestinian homes and businesses, destruction of their olive trees that they grow for sale of olives and olive oil, etc.

                                2. Intent of making the region ethnically homogenous - Check of that box - the bulldozing of those homes and businesses is done to set up Jewish settlements (those Jewish settlers are known for terrorizing Islamic and Christian Palestinians, BTW)

                                3. Direct removal: check off that box, they're directly forcing them off their lands and out of their homes and even bulldozing people who stand in the way.

                                4. indirect methods: check off that box with the property destruction, arson, destruction of agriculture, shutting off of water, checkpoints to even leave your own village and travel across your own country, requirements of permits to farm your own land, requirements of getting a permit to even travel etc.

                                So looks like it checks all the boxes pretty darn firmly.


                                Now let's go with apartheid. It honestly should not be much of a surprise to anyone that Israel is practicing Apartheid policies.

                                They were close allies with Apartheid South Africa, after all, giving them all sorts of assistance (including military).

                                In fact, at one point, they offered to sell the Apartheid regime nuclear weapons (the offer was turned down due to cost) and nuclear-capable missiles. It's also suspected that they helped the Apartheid regime then develop their own nuclear weapons. In return, South Africa provided Israel much of the yellowcake Uranium they needed to develop their own arsenal (which Israel to this day does not admit to having, and has not signed the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty.....). Israel put great pressure on the post-apartheid government not to declassify the documents that described the sale offer.

                                Their chumminess makes it completely unsurprising they'd use such policies themselves.

                                Actual survivors (including Jewish ones) of South Africa's Apartheid agree that Israel is practicing Apartheid policies.

                                A Rabbi who grew up in South Africa and fought the apartheid regime:
                                https://truthout.org/articles/as-a-r...artheid-state/

                                A Jewish activist who grew up in apartheid South Africa and fought the regime:
                                https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...d-south-africa
                                "So when you actually get the virus, you're going to start producing antibodies against multiple pieces of the virus. So, your antibodies are probably better at that point than the vaccination."
                                - Pfizer Scientist Chris Croce

                                Comment

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