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Irondome Defunding

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  • Irondome Defunding

    America has defunded Iron Dome, it seems. I'm thinking there's a good chance it might force Israel into a more aggressive stance.
    sigpic1 Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

  • #2
    Originally posted by tabibito View Post
    America has defunded Iron Dome, it seems. I'm thinking there's a good chance it might force Israel into a more aggressive stance.
    Good, though I don't think it will last long if the Israel lobby has anything to say about it (they do, a lot, in this corrupt system). There is no reason we should be sending billions of dollars (for this and other aid) to Israel to protect them while they commit ethnic cleansing. They are more than capable of taking care of themselves and creating their own money. Especially when we have veterans on the streets, failing VA hospitals, etc.. We can't even take care of our own soldiers after we used and abused them in decades of pointless wars, but we can somehow muster up a few cool billion to send to Daddy Israel? It's time we stopped being the Unconditional Pursebag of Israel and go back to being the United States of America
    "So when you actually get the virus, you're going to start producing antibodies against multiple pieces of the virus. So, your antibodies are probably better at that point than the vaccination."
    - Pfizer Scientist Chris Croce

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post
      Good, though I don't think it will last long if the Israel lobby has anything to say about it (they do, a lot, in this corrupt system). There is no reason we should be sending billions of dollars (for this and other aid) to Israel to protect them while they commit ethnic cleansing. They are more than capable of taking care of themselves and creating their own money.
      I'll leave that alone for now...

      Especially when we have veterans on the streets, failing VA hospitals, etc.. We can't even take care of our own soldiers after we used and abused them in decades of pointless wars, but we can somehow muster up a few cool billion to send to Daddy Israel? It's time we stopped being the Unconditional Pursebag of Israel and go back to being the United States of America
      This bothers me in that we don't have to "not" fund something in order to found our VA hospitals, veterans and so on. If we can print trillions of dollars, we can take care of our military without worrying about "not spending it elsewhere".

      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

        I'll leave that alone for now...



        This bothers me in that we don't have to "not" fund something in order to found our VA hospitals, veterans and so on. If we can print trillions of dollars, we can take care of our military without worrying about "not spending it elsewhere".
        There's no reason we should be supporting another country that can protect itself, when we can't even take care of our own people. There's no reason we should be spending money we don't have on other countries, let alone doing so while not taking care of our own people. There's no reason we should be spending ourselves toward Venezuela status to give goodies to a country committing ethnic cleansing. If we're going to be spending that money, there's no reason it should be spent on anyone other than ourselves. Cut back a few billions to Israel, keep a billion or so to completely reform the VA, and we'd be in a far better place, and with less blood on our hands.
        Last edited by Gondwanaland; 09-22-2021, 05:07 PM.
        "So when you actually get the virus, you're going to start producing antibodies against multiple pieces of the virus. So, your antibodies are probably better at that point than the vaccination."
        - Pfizer Scientist Chris Croce

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post

          Good, though I don't think it will last long if the Israel lobby has anything to say about it (they do, a lot, in this corrupt system). There is no reason we should be sending billions of dollars (for this and other aid) to Israel to protect them while they commit ethnic cleansing. They are more than capable of taking care of themselves and creating their own money. Especially when we have veterans on the streets, failing VA hospitals, etc.. We can't even take care of our own soldiers after we used and abused them in decades of pointless wars, but we can somehow muster up a few cool billion to send to Daddy Israel? It's time we stopped being the Unconditional Pursebag of Israel and go back to being the United States of America
          This claim of "ethnic cleansing" is kind of confusing. Except for occasional shut-downs, Israel is open to West Bank residents, and Islamic and Christian groups are permitted to have their churches and mosques in Israel. So Palestine is something of an enigma - or would be, if it wasn't home to groups who openly declare that there will be no peace with Israel until they have been pushed into the sea.

          However, there are groups within Israel who welcome this decision. They include some who have the same attitude to the Palestine that the aforementioned Palestinian groups have toward Israel.

          Currently Israel is expressing confidence that it will be able to source funding for Iron Dome from elsewhere, with domestically being a strong contender.
          sigpic1 Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by tabibito View Post

            This claim of "ethnic cleansing" is kind of confusing. Except for occasional shut-downs, Israel is open to West Bank residents, and Islamic and Christian groups are permitted to have their churches and mosques in Israel. So Palestine is something of an enigma - or would be, if it wasn't home to groups who openly declare that there will be no peace with Israel until they have been pushed into the sea.

            However, there are groups within Israel who welcome this decision. They include some who have the same attitude to the Palestine that the aforementioned Palestinian groups have toward Israel.

            Currently Israel is expressing confidence that it will be able to source funding for Iron Dome from elsewhere, with domestically being a strong contender.
            I mean, I'm unsure what else you'd call systematic, deliberate, removal of a people from their own land in order to settle their land, destruction of their houses and water sources, olive trees, etc., in order to replace it with settlements of your own people. Like??? That's literally a textbook definition of ethnic cleansing, and that's precisely what Israel has been doing for decades.

            And that's not even directly mentioning the apartheid state Israel has set up.
            "So when you actually get the virus, you're going to start producing antibodies against multiple pieces of the virus. So, your antibodies are probably better at that point than the vaccination."
            - Pfizer Scientist Chris Croce

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post

              Good, though I don't think it will last long if the Israel lobby has anything to say about it (they do, a lot, in this corrupt system).
              As I predicted, the Dem Rosa DeLauro has already rushed to push a separate bill like a good little life-long minion of the Israel lobby: https://www.politico.com/news/2021/0...on-dome-513648

              SMH. What a complete and utter waste of money we don't have and don't have the ability to pay back. Despicable.

              "So when you actually get the virus, you're going to start producing antibodies against multiple pieces of the virus. So, your antibodies are probably better at that point than the vaccination."
              - Pfizer Scientist Chris Croce

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post

                I mean, I'm unsure what else you'd call systematic, deliberate, removal of a people from their own land in order to settle their land, destruction of their houses and water sources, olive trees, etc., in order to replace it with settlements of your own people. Like??? That's literally a textbook definition of ethnic cleansing, and that's precisely what Israel has been doing for decades.

                And that's not even directly mentioning the apartheid state Israel has set up.
                It does seem that the Palestinians do have some massive legitimate grievances, and equal to Israel's - in some cases greater. But Israel has shown willing to make real moves toward rapprochement in the past, which have usually met with violent opposition by Palestinian groups. All of which leaves me in quandary.

                Of intense interest:
                https://www.vox.com/2014/7/17/590217...t-you-were-too
                The simple version is that violence has become the status quo and that trying for peace is risky, so leaders on both ends seem to believe that managing the violence is preferable, while the Israeli and Palestinian publics show less and less interest in pressuring their leaders to take risks for peace.

                Last edited by tabibito; 09-22-2021, 06:30 PM.
                sigpic1 Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by tabibito View Post

                  It does seem that the Palestinians do have some massive legitimate grievances, and equal to Israel's - in some cases greater. But Israel has shown willing to make real moves toward rapprochement in the past, which have usually met with violent opposition by Palestinian groups. All of which leaves me in quandary.
                  "willing to make real moves" you mean whilst meanwhile bulldozing Palestinian homes and building Jewish buildings on top of them? Yeah.... no.
                  "So when you actually get the virus, you're going to start producing antibodies against multiple pieces of the virus. So, your antibodies are probably better at that point than the vaccination."
                  - Pfizer Scientist Chris Croce

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post

                    "willing to make real moves" you mean whilst meanwhile bulldozing Palestinian homes and building Jewish buildings on top of them? Yeah.... no.
                    Israel's hands are not as clean as they should be, not by a wide margin. Israel is not without excuse, nor is Palestine. Palestine are not innocent victims, but at the outset Israel was: that is no longer the case.
                    What it comes down to: what would be the outcome if Israel acceded to Palestine's legitimate demands?
                    sigpic1 Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by tabibito View Post

                      Israel's hands are not as clean as they should be, not by a wide margin. Israel is not without excuse, nor is Palestine. Palestine are not innocent victims, but at the outset Israel was: that is no longer the case.
                      What it comes down to: what would be the outcome if Israel acceded to Palestine's legitimate demands?
                      The same as if Palestine acceded to Israel's demands and allow the ethnic cleansing to continue without fighting back, allow the apartheid state to continue without fighting back.
                      "So when you actually get the virus, you're going to start producing antibodies against multiple pieces of the virus. So, your antibodies are probably better at that point than the vaccination."
                      - Pfizer Scientist Chris Croce

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Interesting enough, the times I've been in Israel, the local Jews and Muslims seem to get along just fine, working for one another, or next to each other..... it's the "guys at the top" who keep all the fighting going.
                        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                          Interesting enough, the times I've been in Israel, the local Jews and Muslims seem to get along just fine, working for one another, or next to each other..... it's the "guys at the top" who keep all the fighting going.
                          That seems to be the conclusion drawn in the Vox article. It is more politically expedient on both sides to continue the conflict - there is too much risk in pursuing a peaceful resolution.
                          sigpic1 Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                            Interesting enough, the times I've been in Israel, the local Jews and Muslims seem to get along just fine, working for one another, or next to each other..... it's the "guys at the top" who keep all the fighting going.
                            And they 'guys at the bottom' who get their water shut off, homes bulldozed, olive trees razed, buildings and city blocks blown to smithereens, children blown up on the beach, etc....
                            "So when you actually get the virus, you're going to start producing antibodies against multiple pieces of the virus. So, your antibodies are probably better at that point than the vaccination."
                            - Pfizer Scientist Chris Croce

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post

                              And they 'guys at the bottom' who get their water shut off, homes bulldozed, olive trees razed, buildings and city blocks blown to smithereens, children blown up on the beach, etc....
                              For which the Palestinian and Israeli leaders seemingly share equal blame.

                              Maybe Bellisario had his finger on the pulse.
                              sigpic1 Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

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