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New Durham indictment - second leg of Hillary Clinton's Russia collusion dirty trick

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  • #16
    The fact that the lawyer billed his time to the Clinton campaign means the Clinton campaign had full knowledge of his doings and even hired him to do it. Lawyers don't do anything on their own initiative without clearing it with the client. And it would be detailed in his bill to them. The only question remains is did Hillary know and authorize this scheme. That's where you will find the trail dry up, I am betting. She knows how to keep her hands clean and play dumb.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Sparko View Post
      The fact that the lawyer billed his time to the Clinton campaign means the Clinton campaign had full knowledge of his doings and even hired him to do it. Lawyers don't do anything on their own initiative without clearing it with the client. And it would be detailed in his bill to them.
      That may be true in general, but I doubt it is always true. Michael Cohen, for example, did some things for Trump because he assumed that Trump would want them done, without clearing them with Trump, or having been explicitly directed by Trump.

      The only question remains is did Hillary know and authorize this scheme. That's where you will find the trail dry up, I am betting. She knows how to keep her hands clean and play dumb.
      The only charge against Sussmann is that he claimed (to an FBI official) that he was not working for a client when he actually was working for a client. I don't think Sussmann gains anything by saying, "But my client told me to say that I wasn't working for a client!"

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Stoic View Post
        That may be true in general, but I doubt it is always true. Michael Cohen, for example, did some things for Trump because he assumed that Trump would want them done, without clearing them with Trump, or having been explicitly directed by Trump.


        The only charge against Sussmann is that he claimed (to an FBI official) that he was not working for a client when he actually was working for a client. I don't think Sussmann gains anything by saying, "But my client told me to say that I wasn't working for a client!"
        This was a lot more detailed of a plan to have been hatched and carried out by the lawyer without approval and instigation by the Clinton campaign. If it were the lawyer's idea he wouldn't have billed them for it. No, the campaign knew about it. Occam's razor.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Stoic View Post
          That may be true in general, but I doubt it is always true. Michael Cohen, for example, did some things for Trump because he assumed that Trump would want them done, without clearing them with Trump, or having been explicitly directed by Trump.
          Absolutely no doubt he was working for Trump.

          The only charge against Sussmann is that he claimed (to an FBI official) that he was not working for a client when he actually was working for a client. I don't think Sussmann gains anything by saying, "But my client told me to say that I wasn't working for a client!"
          A) I'm trying to figure out why it's illegal to lie to the lying FBI.

          2) From The Hill:

          The indictment alleges that Sussman, an attorney at the firm Perkins Coie with ties to the Democratic Party, misrepresented who he was working for when he presented evidence to the FBI in 2016 of a link between the Trump Organization and the Russian financial company Alfa Bank.

          Prosecutors in Durham's office say that Sussman falsely claimed to investigators at the time that he was not acting on behalf of any client when he had actually been representing Hillary Clinton's 2016 campaign and an unnamed tech executive.




          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Sparko View Post

            This was a lot more detailed of a plan to have been hatched and carried out by the lawyer without approval and instigation by the Clinton campaign. If it were the lawyer's idea he wouldn't have billed them for it. No, the campaign knew about it. Occam's razor.
            And if a lawyer bills a client for something the client did not want them to do, there would be heck to pay!
            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
              Absolutely no doubt he was working for Trump.



              A) I'm trying to figure out why it's illegal to lie to the lying FBI.

              2) From The Hill:

              The indictment alleges that Sussman, an attorney at the firm Perkins Coie with ties to the Democratic Party, misrepresented who he was working for when he presented evidence to the FBI in 2016 of a link between the Trump Organization and the Russian financial company Alfa Bank.

              Prosecutors in Durham's office say that Sussman falsely claimed to investigators at the time that he was not acting on behalf of any client when he had actually been representing Hillary Clinton's 2016 campaign and an unnamed tech executive.
              An FBI agent could come up to you and ask a couple of questions in the morning. He doesn't take notes or record it, and that afternoon, after he returns to the office, he writes up his report. What is written then, from memory, becomes official. If he makes a mistake and misstates something you said you can find yourself in big trouble for lying to him even if that wasn't what you said.

              Personally, I would never talk to an FBI agent without recording it or having my attorney present. Remember how they lied to Flynn saying that the conversation was unofficial and off the record and therefore having a lawyer was not necessary? Maybe it would be smart to both record the conversation and have your attorney present.

              I'm always still in trouble again

              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
              "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                And if a lawyer bills a client for something the client did not want them to do, there would be heck to pay!


                Just finished up the lawsuit I was involved in and my attorney would call up to inform me of something and ask me to email him approval. Likewise, even though I repeatedly made it clear I would not sue my best friend and would drop everything if it got to that point he would point out that if I did sue him I would get a good deal more than what I got. He would do so because it was his job to remind me of the various possibilities and he could get in trouble if he didn't do so.

                Funny thing is I would have never sued if the insurance company would have paid the bills instead of offering me $5000 even though the trauma center visit alone was something like $33,000 (for a couple of hours) and all they did was a series of MRIs
                Last edited by rogue06; 09-20-2021, 10:08 AM.

                I'm always still in trouble again

                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                  An FBI agent could come up to you and ask a couple of questions in the morning. He doesn't take notes or record it, and that afternoon, after he returns to the office, he writes up his report. What is written then, from memory, becomes official. If he makes a mistake and misstates something you said you can find yourself in big trouble for lying to him even if that wasn't what you said.

                  Personally, I would never talk to an FBI agent without recording it or having my attorney present. Remember how they lied to Flynn saying that the conversation was unofficial and off the record and therefore having a lawyer was not necessary? Maybe it would be smart to both record the conversation and have your attorney present.
                  Again, back in my younger days when I was the liaison between our PD and the FBI, I actually believed those guys (FBI agents) were boy scouts who could not lie. They seemed to be professional to a fault. Since then, it seems the Bureau has gone to heck in a race car.

                  I agree - I would not talk to an FBI agent about anything even remotely substantial without witnesses, or my own recording, or... yeah, it's sad.
                  The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                    Again, back in my younger days when I was the liaison between our PD and the FBI, I actually believed those guys (FBI agents) were boy scouts who could not lie. They seemed to be professional to a fault. Since then, it seems the Bureau has gone to heck in a race car.

                    I agree - I would not talk to an FBI agent about anything even remotely substantial without witnesses, or my own recording, or... yeah, it's sad.
                    I used to laugh when FBI tangled with NCIS in the NCIS series. It somehow doesn't seem quite so funny these days.
                    1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                    .
                    ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
                    Scripture before Tradition:
                    but that won't prevent others from
                    taking it upon themselves to deprive you
                    of the right to call yourself Christian.

                    ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                      And if a lawyer bills a client for something the client did not want them to do, there would be heck to pay!
                      For sure.


                      and it has always been illegal to lie (a material lie) to a federal agent.
                      https://www.shouselaw.com/ca/blog/fe...serious-crime/

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Sparko View Post

                        For sure.


                        and it has always been illegal to lie (a material lie) to a federal agent.
                        https://www.shouselaw.com/ca/blog/fe...serious-crime/
                        Yeah, I'm aware - it's even illegal to lie to the lying bunch of liars in Congress.
                        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                          Yeah, I'm aware - it's even illegal to lie to the lying bunch of liars in Congress.
                          But it is completely legal for them to lie to us.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Sparko View Post

                            But it is completely legal for them to lie to us.
                            It's even been held that it's legal for them to lie during an interrogation "interview".
                            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                              And if a lawyer bills a client for something the client did not want them to do, there would be heck to pay!
                              I think it boils down to "explicitly". Lets say I am a music label and I hire a firm to go after copyright infringement on Youtube. I may trust my lawyer to go after the infringement without consulting and getting explicit go-ahead on each and every cease and desist notice they give out that uses my music. This creates a situation where the lawyer decides to pursue a course of action in a specific case that they and I might disagree on, if I was making them on a case by case basis. (Such as say, a charity helping wounded war orphans using a video with my music that ends up creating a big bad optics issue for myself). They were working in my best interest, doing what I asked them to, but ended up doing something under a trusting carte blanche that I wouldn't on a case by case basis. The other situation might be them acting against fair use. Having trusted them to enforce my copyright, I am not looking on a case by case basis, and it can create a bad situation that I wouldn't pick up on.


                              (Yes, this would be the result of my giving carte blanche, or hiring a bad lawyer, but that is neither here no there).

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                                It's even been held that it's legal for them to lie during an interrogation "interview".
                                Or a Presidential speech.

                                Comment

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