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  • Originally posted by mossrose View Post

    She just smacked me in seer's thread for responding to her post when it was addressed to someone else!

    How come you get to do that and I don’t?
    I started to say "nobody ever accused her of being consistent", then I thought, "well, except for ing - she's pretty consistent with that".

    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by mossrose View Post

      Heck, no!

      But I like to point out her consistently inconsistent behaviour.
      Yeah, that!
      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
        that no one has mentioned this.

        https://www.theguardian.com/society/...sgender-bishop



        The Evangelical Lutheran Church of America has installed its first openly transgender bishop in a service held in San Francisco’s Grace Cathedral on Saturday.

        The Rev Megan Rohrer will lead one of the church’s 65 synods, overseeing nearly 200 congregations in northern California and northern Nevada.

        “My call is ... to be up to the same messy, loving things I was up to before,” Rohrer told worshippers. “But mostly, if you’ll let me, and I think you will, my hope is to love you and beyond that, to love what you love.”

        Rohrer was elected in May to serve a six-year term as bishop of the Sierra Pacific Synod after its current bishop announced his retirement.

        “I step into this role because a diverse community of Lutherans in northern California and Nevada prayerfully and thoughtfully voted to do a historic thing,” Rohrer said in a statement. “My installation will celebrate all that is possible when we trust God to shepherd us forward.”

        Rohrer, who uses the pronoun “they,” previously served as pastor of Grace Lutheran Church in San Francisco and a chaplain coordinator for the city’s police department, and also helped minister to the city’s homeless and LGTBQ+ communities. They studied religion at Augustana University in their hometown of Sioux Falls, South Dakota, before moving to California to pursue master’s and doctoral degrees at the Pacific School of Religion in Berkeley.

        Rohrer became one of seven LGBTQ+ pastors accepted by the progressive Evangelical Lutheran church in 2010 after it allowed ordination of pastors in same-sex relationships. Rohrer is married and has two children.

        The church is one of the largest Christian denominations in the United States, with about 3.3 million members.


        I wonder what the laity will make of it. Is 3.3 million members one of the largest Christian denominations in the US? Or is that a reference to churches and not individuals?
        Oopsie, looks like in ELCAs eagerness to be woke and appoint a Trans Bishop, they ended up appointing a racist! And now the presiding Bishop is calling for him/her/it to resign.
        https://religionnews.com/2022/05/28/...gender-bishop/
        ELCA presiding bishop requests resignation of first transgender bishop Bishop Megan Rohrer’s removal of a Latino pastor on the Feast of Our Lady of Guadalupe has been criticized by the Asociación de Ministerios Latinos de la ELCA as showing a ‘lack of empathy and understanding toward their Latinx siblings.’

        The presiding bishop of the largest Lutheran denomination in the United States has asked its first transgender bishop to resign amid criticism over their removal of the pastor of a Hispanic congregation on the Feast of Our Lady of Guadalupe in December.

        In a report to the church published Friday (May 27), Bishop Elizabeth Eaton, head of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, announced she had requested Bishop Megan Rohrer’s resignation from the denomination’s Sierra Pacific Synod
        Eaton’s request comes after the Sierra Pacific Synod removed the Rev. Nelson Rabell-González from his position as mission director at Misión Latina Luterana in Stockton, California, on Dec. 12. The Feast of Our Lady of Guadalupe — when many Mexican Americans celebrate their religious and cultural identities — commemorates the day in 1531 when many Christians, particularly Catholics, believe the Virgin Mary appeared in Mexico to an Indigenous man named Juan Diego.

        In a previous statement on the Sierra Pacific Synod’s blog, the synod council said it had unanimously decided to vacate Rabell-González’s call after “continual communications of verbal harassment and retaliatory actions from more than a dozen victims from 2019 to the present.” Rabell-González denied those accusations to Religion News Service.

        But Rohrer’s actions were criticized by the Asociación de Ministerios Latinos de la ELCA as showing a “lack of empathy and understanding toward their Latinx siblings” and led Eaton to appoint a listening team to review what had happened.

        The presiding bishop said Friday she does not plan to pursue disciplinary charges against Rohrer — a decision the Asociación de Ministerios Latinos de la ELCA and several partner organizations also criticized.

        “I do not believe that the circumstances of these unfortunate events and Bishop Rohrer’s involvement in them rise to the level of formal discipline against Bishop Rohrer,” Eaton said.

        “However, I believe that Bishop Rohrer has lost the trust and confidence of many constituents, both within and without the Sierra Pacific Synod.”

        “Unwise decisions” are not automatic grounds for discipline in the denomination, according to the presiding bishop’s statement. But, she said, she has asked Rohrer to respond after attending the Sierra Pacific’s synod assembly next week, listening to their constituents and prayerfully considering her request to resign.

        In a statement published Saturday, the Asociación de Ministerios Latinos de la ELCA, the European Descent Lutheran Association for Racial Justice and Extraordinary Lutheran Ministries called Eaton’s decision not to pursue disciplinary charges against Rohrer a “culturally insensitive dereliction of duty.”

        The three-person listening team also released a statement over the weekend saying Eaton’s decisions “totally disregard the heart and intent of our report.”

        “We do not want it to be supposed that our work is aligned with or supports the proposed actions,” it said.

        The listening team criticized Eaton for never once mentioning racism in her report. It urged the presiding bishop to make its findings public, saying it concluded “racist words and actions caused trauma and great pain to many people of color” in the Sierra Pacific Synod.

        “To characterize racist actions as simply ‘insensitive’ or ‘misguided’ is to validate the charge against the ELCA that we are blind to the pain we cause our siblings of color. When we do not name and confess the sin of racism in our institutions, we are doomed to continue in its power,” according to the listening team’s statement.

        Rohrer directed RNS to a spokesperson for the Sierra Pacific Synod for comment late Friday afternoon. The spokesperson did not immediately respond.

        During the 2021 synod assembly, where he was nominated for bishop, Rabell-González acknowledged allegations against him, saying he was accused of “verbally mistreating a pastoral intern and members of the church staff” in a previous position at a different church. The pastor, who is Afro-Caribbean, said he had been asked to resign from that church and sign a nondisclosure agreement, which he declined, after members complained about his support for Black Lives Matter and immigrant rights.
        He welcomed an investigation into the allegations, he told the synod assembly.

        “I am not perfect. I’m just a sinner in need of God’s grace. But these allegations are a character assassination brought up exactly one day before this assembly,” he said.

        In the end, Rohrer was elected bishop of the Sierra Pacific Synod. The synod council created an advisory council to look into the allegations against Rabell-González and identified “compassionate steps” for him to take, which became part of the terms and requirements of his call, according to the council’s statement on the Sierra Pacific Synod blog.

        Rabell-González informed Rohrer on Dec. 9 he would not fulfill those terms and requirements, according to the council, which took action Dec. 11 at its regular meeting.

        The pastor was told the next morning, on the Feast of Our Lady of Guadalupe, that his call had been vacated, it said. His congregation at Misión Latina Luterana was informed afterward and offered care by synod staff.

        The synod council statement said the timing of its decision was necessary because synod staff continued to receive “communications of concern” regarding the pastor.

        “The Synod Council believed then and now that it would be irresponsible to postpone our decision until a later meeting for the severity of the situation required immediate action to safeguard the Latinx community,” it said.

        The council has publicly apologized for disrupting Misión Latina Luterana’s celebration of the Feast of Our Lady of Guadalupe.

        So has Rohrer.

        “I understand that trust can be lost with one action and must be rebuilt with hundreds of trustworthy actions,” Rohrer wrote in late December.

        “I am grateful to all who have educated me about the needs of the Latino/x/é community and remain committed to doing the work needed to repair relationships. The Sierra Pacific Synod and I seek to be ever-reforming in our anti-racism and anti-bias work.”

        In addition to criticism from Asociación de Ministerios Latinos de la ELCA and African Descent Lutheran Association, Extraordinary Lutheran Ministries suspended Rohrer’s membership in late December after they dismissed Rabell-González. In a written statement at the time, Extraordinary Lutheran Ministries, which organizes queer ministry leaders in the ELCA, accused Rohrer of “an existing pattern of behavior” that doesn’t align with its vision, mission and values — “specifically as it pertains to being an anti-racist organization.”

        Rohrer’s election in May 2021 made them the first openly transgender bishop in the largest Lutheran denomination in the United States — or any major denomination in the country. Rohrer also has celebrated being a neurodivergent bishop, part of their identity they said gets less attention.

        On Friday, Rohrer responded to several posts on Twitter expressing support for the bishop.

        “As requested, I’m listening deeply and prayerfully discerning,” they said in one tweet.

        In another, they wrote, “There has been so much more kindness and compassion expressed to me than anger, frustration and hurt. This fully human human appreciates all the prayers.”

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post

          Oopsie, looks like in ELCAs eagerness to be woke and appoint a Trans Bishop, they ended up appointing a racist! And now the presiding Bishop is calling for him/her/it to resign.
          https://religionnews.com/2022/05/28/...gender-bishop/
          Oh, what a tangled web we weave..... and "him/her/it" is "they".
          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
            All Christian denominations are Christian.
            Jesus would call you a liar.
            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

              Jesus would call you a liar.
              Jesus was not a Christian.
              "It ain't necessarily so
              The things that you're liable
              To read in the Bible
              It ain't necessarily so
              ."

              Sportin' Life
              Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post

                Oopsie, looks like in ELCAs eagerness to be woke and appoint a Trans Bishop, they ended up appointing a racist! And now the presiding Bishop is calling for him/her/it to resign.
                https://religionnews.com/2022/05/28/...gender-bishop/
                smiley shock-wait.gif

                I'm always still in trouble again

                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post

                  Oopsie, looks like in ELCAs eagerness to be woke and appoint a Trans Bishop, they ended up appointing a racist! And now the presiding Bishop is calling for him/her/it to resign.
                  https://religionnews.com/2022/05/28/...gender-bishop/
                  Thank you for posting that some nine months after this thread was started.
                  "It ain't necessarily so
                  The things that you're liable
                  To read in the Bible
                  It ain't necessarily so
                  ."

                  Sportin' Life
                  Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                    Thank you for posting that some nine months after this thread was started.
                    It's almost as if things come to light at a later time than an original event. One would think a historian would be able to grasp that.

                    No comment on the actual issue, I note.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                      Thank you for posting that some nine months after this thread was started.
                      He still had one of these that I passed out when Sparko passed out.


                      I'm always still in trouble again

                      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                        Jesus was not a Christian.
                        No foolin', Sherlock -- He was the Christ.
                        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                          No foolin', Sherlock -- He was the Christ.
                          Messiah [anointed one] translated into Greek as Χριστός [Christ].

                          However, the Jewish Messiah is not a divinity.

                          For one itinerant Galilean Jewish charismatic warning his fellow Jews to repent for the End Times were imminent and the kingdom of God was at hand, all that came later.
                          "It ain't necessarily so
                          The things that you're liable
                          To read in the Bible
                          It ain't necessarily so
                          ."

                          Sportin' Life
                          Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post

                            It's almost as if things come to light at a later time than an original event. One would think a historian would be able to grasp that.

                            No comment on the actual issue, I note.
                            If the complaints are upheld she should go gracefully.

                            ETA My original reply was a courtesy but it was clearly wasted on you.
                            Last edited by Hypatia_Alexandria; 05-31-2022, 04:24 PM.
                            "It ain't necessarily so
                            The things that you're liable
                            To read in the Bible
                            It ain't necessarily so
                            ."

                            Sportin' Life
                            Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                              Messiah [anointed one] translated into Greek as Χριστός [Christ].

                              However, the Jewish Messiah is not a divinity.

                              For one itinerant Galilean Jewish charismatic warning his fellow Jews to repent for the End Times were imminent and the kingdom of God was at hand, all that came later.
                              You forgot to add "in my own dopey opinion".

                              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                                You forgot to add "in my own dopey opinion".
                                And in the "dopey opinion" of millions of observant Jews for the last two thousand years or so.
                                "It ain't necessarily so
                                The things that you're liable
                                To read in the Bible
                                It ain't necessarily so
                                ."

                                Sportin' Life
                                Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                                Comment

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