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  • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

    wow
    I haven't seen arguments as bad as hers since LDSTrue and Magellan2004 were on this board. Cringe-worthy bad.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

      Does anybody here seriously believe she can possibly be this stupid? I think she HAS to be ing just for the sake of ing.
      At first think, I would agree, but then you have to remember her first thread on the board was her seriously arguing that Paul wasn't a Jew. So maybe not trolling, just an idiot. MM says it's nearly impossible to tell them apart.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

        Does anybody here seriously believe she can possibly be this stupid? I think she HAS to be ing just for the sake of ing.
        Oooh look more trolling from someone who accuses me of his own faults.
        "It ain't necessarily so
        The things that you're liable
        To read in the Bible
        It ain't necessarily so
        ."

        Sportin' Life
        Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

        Comment


        • Originally posted by RumTumTugger View Post
          No Hypatia there was no argument by silence it was folks showing you where you were wrong to in your argument that Paul never referred to himself as a Jew just because he did not use the Greek a certain Greek word. You need to prove he didn't by showing us
          No I do not. You [collectively] need to find the text where Paul uses the Greek [and he wrote in Koine Greek] word ιουδαιος when referring to himself.

          Perhaps you [collectively] can also explain why a Jew [even a renegade] turns the standard blessings of bread and wine at a meal into theophagy. - hardly Jewish is it?


          "It ain't necessarily so
          The things that you're liable
          To read in the Bible
          It ain't necessarily so
          ."

          Sportin' Life
          Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Sparko View Post

            I haven't seen arguments as bad as hers since LDSTrue and Magellan2004 were on this board. Cringe-worthy bad.
            Is that a face saving way of explaining you cannot counter them?
            "It ain't necessarily so
            The things that you're liable
            To read in the Bible
            It ain't necessarily so
            ."

            Sportin' Life
            Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

            Comment


            • [QUOTE=Hypatia_Alexandria;n1304740] The Hebrew texts have more verses dealing with dietary codes and laws than they do on homosexuality. Again, textual fact.

              επιθυμία [desire] is one of the four major types of passion, along with grief, fear, and pleasure [and sometimes anger].
              Desire was unnatural.
              [επιθυμια - crave]
              επιθυμια επεθυμησα τουτο το πασχα φαγειν μεθ υμων προ του με παθειν. I have earnestly desired to eat this passover with you before I am to suffer. Jesus.
              Paul craves to depart and be with Christ. Paul
              The spirit craves in opposition to the craving of the flesh. Paul
              We craved to see you face to face. Paul
              The one who aspires to leadership craves a good work. Paul

              Nothing unnatural about craving, nor is it intrinsically wrong.

              The philosophical ideas of the Stoics viewed all desires and passions, including sexual desire as irrational and unnatural, and held the view that a strong minded person could, and should, eliminate sexual desire along with all the other passions. The individual who was able to eliminate all desires and for whom happiness was not dependent upon those things that others wished or strove for, would find complete freedom.
              As Sparko noted - stoicism had no connection with early Christian teaching.

              We don't know if Paul thought sex was a sin in and of itself. He doesn’t tell us. What he does tell us is that he condemns all passion and particularly sexual passion and that he views virginity and chastity as the ideal. However, for those unable to meet those lofty requirements and who have difficulty in controlling themselves, then marriage is the preferable choice.
              We do know that he didn't. His admonition to chastity was prompted by the circumstances that prevailed in a limited area and for a limited time.

              What we also know is that by the late second century CE, Apologists like Justin Martyr and ECFs like Clement of Alexandria were making statements that Christians only marry to beget children and that if men marry to have children they should have no sexual desire for their wives. And by the fourth century St Jerome was making it clear that he viewed marriage with utter contempt.
              All of which was divorced from any Biblical teaching.

              We also have, within the Christian Apocrypha, writings that regard sex as “the experiment of the serpent” while Revelations 14:4 makes it clear that those who have not ‘"defiled’" themselves with women but have remained virgins follow the Lamb. So this idea of sin and sex has deep roots in Christianity.
              Marriage does not defile the person - try again.

              No there is not. What you actually by plain reading is the translation and interpretation that you accept to be correct.
              That is an argument that people reject the plain readings (which would often be sustainable). It is not an argument against the existence of plain readings.
              1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
              .
              ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
              Scripture before Tradition:
              but that won't prevent others from
              taking it upon themselves to deprive you
              of the right to call yourself Christian.

              ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                Oooh look more trolling from someone who accuses me of his own faults.
                You prove my point with nearly every post. And I'm not trolling - I'm calling you out for the wretched little you are.

                I have answered your posts in detail, with citations, providing facts, references to legal documents (particularly in the other thread), and you just double down with stupidity.
                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                  Is that a face saving way of explaining you cannot counter them?
                  There is nothing to counter. It's a meaningless claim. And as you showed when dealing with Acts, even when the bible does show Paul saying "I am a Jew" you merely dismiss it as fiction.

                  You are free to believe what you want, but you will never convince anyone else that you are correct with such juvenile simplistic arguments from silence.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by tabibito View Post

                    So without Luke's record, we would only have Paul's own record to base an estimate on. And Paul's own words - even by your own assessment - would indicate that he is probably not from Judea.
                    Premised on his own authentic letters why do you come to that conclusion? Paul does not tell us where he comes from. However, he tells us he was a persecutor of "the church".

                    Originally posted by tabibito View Post
                    They would provide his ethnic origins however, because he terms himself a Hebrew and a descendant of Abraham.
                    He could have been the descendant of an Idumean convert as was Antipas.


                    "It ain't necessarily so
                    The things that you're liable
                    To read in the Bible
                    It ain't necessarily so
                    ."

                    Sportin' Life
                    Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                      You prove my point with nearly every post. And I'm not trolling - I'm calling you out for the wretched little you are.

                      I have answered your posts in detail, with citations, providing facts, references to legal documents (particularly in the other thread), and you just double down with stupidity.
                      Tis a pity that these posts weren't made a few months back. The material in these last ten posts alone would have bumped an essay over the line from distinction to high distinction.
                      1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                      .
                      ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
                      Scripture before Tradition:
                      but that won't prevent others from
                      taking it upon themselves to deprive you
                      of the right to call yourself Christian.

                      ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                        Is that a face saving way of explaining you cannot counter them?
                        Actually, I made the same observation with regards to LDSTrue.... He was by far the dumbest I had ever encountered.

                        ETA:
                        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                        I haven't seen anything this nutty since --- what was his name - the rabid Mormon --- TrueBoM or whatever his name was? TrueLDS? LDSTrue?
                        You now hold that distinction.
                        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                          Premised on his own authentic letters why do you come to that conclusion? Paul does not tell us where he comes from. However, he tells us he was a persecutor of "the church".
                          Seven letters (with consensus dates)[8] considered genuine by most scholars:Repeating what has already been posted, and if I remember rightly, more than once.

                          2 Corinthians 11:22 Are they Hebrews? So am I. Are they Israelites? So am I. Are they descendants of Abraham? So am I



                          1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                          .
                          ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
                          Scripture before Tradition:
                          but that won't prevent others from
                          taking it upon themselves to deprive you
                          of the right to call yourself Christian.

                          ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Sparko View Post

                            There is nothing to counter. It's a meaningless claim. And as you showed when dealing with Acts, even when the bible does show Paul saying "I am a Jew" you merely dismiss it as fiction.
                            He never uses the word to refer to himself. He writes that he is "circumcised on the eighth day, a member of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew born of Hebrews; as to the law, a Pharisee" but he never writes that he is a Jew. Idumean converts were not considered [by some Jews] to be real Jews. That might be the reason he does not refer to himself as Ἰουδαῖος . However, Robert Eisenman has a less flattering view of Paul:

                            From James the Brother of Jesus

                            The ‘freedom’ he [Paul]is talking about is freedom from the Law; the ‘slavery’ both enslavement to it and the Jerusalem Leadership – the ‘we’ referring here to his own communities.[...] It is in these passages, which end in an insistence that he ‘does not lie’- again important for parallel Qumran aspersions on a person known as ‘the Liar’ – that he describes how he first ‘made Peter’s acquaintance’ and ‘saw none of the other Apostles, except James the brother of the Lord’ (Gal. 1:18-20). In doing so, Paul states categorically that he did not ‘go up again to Jerusalem for fourteen years’ (2:1) which completely contradicts both chronological and factual claims in Acts.” [..]“He [Paul] did not recognise earthly authority, nor the ‘Jerusalem Church’ leaders, nor the decisions of the so-called ‘Jerusalem Council’. This was all very well and good for Paul, but one can imagine the kind of problem it might have caused him among his contemporaries.

                            We can get an inkling of these by reading between the lines in his letters and comprehending the doctrine about him in the Pseudoclementines and materials of similar orientation.
                            Paul was obviously being mocked by some- within the Church not outside it- as ’the Man of Dreams’, ‘Lies’, or ‘Lying’, or what was also characterised in a parallel parlance as ‘the Enemy’. This is confirmed tangentially by Paul’s defensiveness with regard to such epithets, as evidenced at the end of his testimony in Galatians to his all important meeting with Peter and James in Jerusalem (Gal. 1:20 and 4:16".

                            The Church at this period, being the Jerusalem Church led by James.







                            "It ain't necessarily so
                            The things that you're liable
                            To read in the Bible
                            It ain't necessarily so
                            ."

                            Sportin' Life
                            Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by tabibito View Post

                              Seven letters (with consensus dates)[8] considered genuine by most scholars:Repeating what has already been posted, and if I remember rightly, more than once.

                              2 Corinthians 11:22 Are they Hebrews? So am I. Are they Israelites? So am I. Are they descendants of Abraham? So am I


                              Ishmael is a son of of Abraham.
                              "It ain't necessarily so
                              The things that you're liable
                              To read in the Bible
                              It ain't necessarily so
                              ."

                              Sportin' Life
                              Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                              Comment


                              • Idumean converts were not Benjamites.

                                Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria
                                Ishmael is a son of of Abraham.
                                and his descendants were not Hebrews, whether Benjamite or any other tribe.
                                Last edited by tabibito; 09-16-2021, 03:03 PM.
                                1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                                .
                                ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
                                Scripture before Tradition:
                                but that won't prevent others from
                                taking it upon themselves to deprive you
                                of the right to call yourself Christian.

                                ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

                                Comment

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