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An obstetrician's opinion

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  • Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post

    CP makes a good point - most PP clinics do things other than abortionsbso the personbeould have to be in the cab or have a listening device and then hear the woman state that she is going there specifically for an abortion. Maybe things are different over in Germany, but over here you exchange pleasantries, maybe a little sports talk, and that'd it. No in depth discussions about your medical decisions/procedures.
    Particularly with an UBER driver, which was the example. The driver already knows your destination and has it programmed into their GPS ---
    You're not negotiating the cost of the ride - or EVEN THE TIP!!! You do all of that in the App.

    Imagine the dialogue....

    Uber: "So, I see you're going to Planned Parenthood's local abortion clinic."
    Karen: "Yup, I'm going to get an abortion!"
    Uber: "GREAT... then the ride is on ME, cause I want to be involved!"

    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

    Comment


    • Yup -- just verified, we're not even talking about a TAXI - the example was Uber...

      If I worked in Texas, anyone could sue me under the new law. But not just me. Anybody could also sue you, should you be the secretary who made the appointment; or the neighbor who watched other kids to make the appointment possible; or the Uber driver who took the patient to the clinic. The payout is at minimum $10,000 per defendant, with no upper limit.


      Odd, that, because interaction with an Uber driver is even less likely to get into detail than with a taxi driver.

      And, again, even "the neighbor who watched other kids to make the appointment possible" would have to be informed of the fact...

      Pregnant lady: "oh, by the way, I'll be gone for about 3 hours because I'm getting an abortion today".
      Babysitter: "Well, in that case, I'll babysit for FREE, cause I support your decision 100%".



      (By the way, H_A, you asked for proof that Dr Karvorkian wasn't familiar with the Texas law --- here are some examples. (Of course, I've already provided them before, but here they are again!))
      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

        Absolutely! I'll have to find that "breakdown" where they super-isolated each "service" so they could claim they provided more "services" than just abortion.

        Something like this...

        MYTH: Abortions account for only 3% of Planned Parenthood’s services. FACT: Most of of its services are connected to abortions.
        • To get to its claim that only 3% of its services are abortions, Planned Parenthood counts every “discrete clinical interaction” as a separate service, even if that service is connected to a patient getting an abortion. View Source
        • An abortion, a pregnancy test, and a prescription would all be counted as separate interactions. View Source
        • Divide the number of abortions, 321,000, by 9.5 million “separate services,” and you get 3%. Even the Washington Post, a Planned Parenthood ally, declared this 3% figure “misleading.” View Source
        • As National Review’s Rich Lowry put it, this would be like Major League Baseball saying they sell 20 million hot dogs, but only play 2,430 games, so baseball is only .012% of what they do. View Source


        "Hi, Uber Driver, I'm Karen, and you're taking me to the abortion clinic, but, gosh, it's ONLY a pregnancy test, so don't go jumping to conclusions --- you know, abortions are only THREE PERCENT of what they do at that clinic!"
        Yup. When even the reliably liberal Washington Post's "Fact Checker" took PP to task for their claim that abortions only account for 3% of what they do you know the statistic has serious issues


        Planned Parenthood’s ‘three percent’

        When all services are counted equally, abortion procedures do account for 3 percent of Planned Parenthood’s total services.

        But there are obvious differences between these services. For example, a first trimester abortion can cost up to $1,500, according to the Planned Parenthood Web site. Yet an emergency contraceptive pill costs around $45 and a urine pregnancy test costs around $10 at a pharmacy. An abortion is a different type of procedure than a vasectomy, or testing for sexually transmitted infections or diseases, or a vaccine for human papilloma virus (HPV), and so forth.

        While each service is listed separately, many clients received multiple services. A woman may get a pregnancy test, birth control and a pap smear, but she would be counted three times, once for each service, in the annual report.

        Those who oppose abortion rights have criticized this definition, saying the 3 percent figure misleads the public. In a recent New York Post op-ed, National Review editor Rich Lowry wrote a series of analogies to argue that the 3 percent figure “is crafted to obscure the reality of Planned Parenthood’s business:”
        Such cracked reasoning could be used to obscure the purpose of any organization.

        The sponsors of the New York City Marathon could count each small cup of water they hand out (some 2 million cups, compared with 45,000 runners) and say they are mainly in the hydration business.

        Or Major League Baseball teams could say that they sell about 20 million hot dogs and play 2,430 games in a season, so baseball is only .012 percent of what they do.

        Supporters of Planned Parenthood want to use its health services as leverage to preserve its abortions, as if you can’t get one without the other.

        Of course, this is nonsense.


        Slate’s Rachael Larimore, the left-leaning online magazine’s conservative senior editor, called this the “most meaningless abortion statistic ever.


        As Larimore put it

        Amanda, it’s been so long since I’ve seen a reference to the claim that abortions make up only 3 percent of the services that Planned Parenthood provides that I thought maybe they’d stopped trying. It might not be a technically incorrect number, but it is meaningless—to the point of being downright silly— for several reasons. Not the least of which being that Planned Parenthood “unbundles” all of its services so that a pack of pills, an STD test and an exam are three separate services.

        Undoubtedly, some of those services are cheaper than others: To illustrate this, let’s make a comparison with an actual business. Say I open a watch store. I sell lots of those cheap plastic digital ones that you can get at discount stores. And I sell some Timex and Casio, and also some nicer designer watches. But then I also keep a few superexpensive Brightlings and Patek Phillipes in stock. And maybe those only make up 3 percent of my sales. But selling only a handful of fancy watches brings in far more than 3 percent of my REVENUES. And so it is with abortion.

        It’s impossible to know how much money Planned Parenthood brings in for abortion. Because as specific as the annual report is about the number of services it provides, it’s far less detailed when talking about where its revenue comes from (They are within their rights, so whatever). But it’s easy to calculate, as the Weekly Standard did, that Planned Parenthood gets at least a third of its clinic income—and more than 10 percent of all its revenue, government funding included—from its abortion procedures.

        Ask anyone who runs a for-profit business or nonprofit charity if something that brings in one-third of their revenue is “central” to their endeavor, and the answer is likely to be yes. So yes, abortion is central to what Planned Parenthood does. There ARE a few things that aren’t central to their purpose though. As compared with the nearly 334,000 abortions that Planned Parenthood provided in 2011, 28,674 women received prenatal services. And 2,300 were referred to adoption agencies.


        And what you often hear about are the mammograms they provide. But...

        Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
        One of the most common talking points used to rationalize continued federal funding (i.e., your tax dollars) of Planned Parenthood is that they provide essential health services for women with mammograms usually being at the top of the list.



        Keep this in mind the next time some pro-abortion advocate trots out that falsehood

        I'm always still in trouble again

        "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
        "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
        "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

        Comment


        • So, Doctor Karvorkian may know a thing or two about killing babies, but she sure doesn't know much about Texas law.
          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

            Read the preceding 14 pages.
            With all due respect to the various comments that have been posted on this thread not one reads as anything comparable to a judicial opinion on this particular law. Opinions yes. The attempts by some individuals to present themselves as having some sort of legal expertise with respect to this law has also been duly noted.
            "It ain't necessarily so
            The things that you're liable
            To read in the Bible
            It ain't necessarily so
            ."

            Sportin' Life
            Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
              So, Doctor Karvorkian may know a thing or two about killing babies, but she sure doesn't know much about Texas law.
              Which has been my point all along and what H_A kept trying to dance around.

              I'm always still in trouble again

              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
              "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                With all due respect to the various comments that have been posted on this thread not one reads as anything comparable to a judicial opinion on this particular law. Opinions yes. The attempts by some individuals to present themselves as having some sort of legal expertise with respect to this law has also been duly noted.
                And now she's back to her "that's just your opinion" shtick.

                I'm always still in trouble again

                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                  With all due respect to the various comments that have been posted on this thread not one reads as anything comparable to a judicial opinion on this particular law.
                  That's your opinion, and a rather haughty one, at that.


                  Opinions yes. The attempts by some individuals to present themselves as having some sort of legal expertise with respect to this law has also been duly noted.


                  We are demonstrating your profound IGNORANCE of the law, along with your Dr. Karvorkian, who has demonstrated profound ignorance of the law.
                  (Actually, in her case, I think it's misrepresentation of the law due to her bias - yes, that's my opinion)

                  You have made asinine assumptions, following Dr. Karvorkian's lead with her really dumb comments pertaining to Uber drivers, babysitters and "mercenaries".

                  You have YET to demonstrate even a scant familiarity with the way a case in Texas would actually proceed.

                  FACT --- "knowingly" has an actual legal definition in the Texas statute.

                  561.314 Knowingly. The term knowingly, with respect to conduct, a circumstance, or a result, means that a person has actual knowledge, or should have known, of the conduct, the circumstance, or the result.


                  We have demonstrated the FACT that it would be incredibly difficult to get a judgment against an Uber driver for KNOWINGLY aiding and abetting an abortion.
                  We have demonstrated the FACT that it would be incredibly difficult to get a judgment against a babysitter for KNOWINGLY aiding and abetting an abortion.
                  We have demonstrated the FACT that it would be incredibly difficult to get a judgment against a neighbor for KNOWINGLY aiding and abetting an abortion.
                  We have demonstrated the FACT that the law does create "mercenaries" out of concerned citizens.

                  We have demonstrated the FACT that you and Dr Karvorkian CLEARLY do not understand the law.
                  The logical conclusion is that you are both quite ignorant of what the law actually states.

                  Now, as you have been asked many times, if you think you DO know how this law would work, please feel free to document to the procedure.
                  The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                    And now she's back to her "that's just your opinion" shtick.
                    As I noted no one has presented anything remotely resembling a judicial opinion on this law, although some do seem to have appointed themselves as" legal experts" on the matter.
                    "It ain't necessarily so
                    The things that you're liable
                    To read in the Bible
                    It ain't necessarily so
                    ."

                    Sportin' Life
                    Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                      As I noted no one has presented anything remotely resembling a judicial opinion on this law, although some do seem to have appointed themselves as" legal experts" on the matter.
                      I just did. And also exposed, once again, your profound ignorance of this law.

                      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                        I just did. And also exposed, once again, your profound ignorance of this law.
                        You have presented nothing that remotely equates to judicial opinion. Stating your own opinions is not exactly the same thing.
                        "It ain't necessarily so
                        The things that you're liable
                        To read in the Bible
                        It ain't necessarily so
                        ."

                        Sportin' Life
                        Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                          You have presented nothing that remotely equates to judicial opinion.
                          All you present is ignorance and bias. And really dumb arguments.

                          Stating your own opinions is not exactly the same thing.
                          Providing an actual legal definition is by NO means "my opinion".

                          You're doing that thing again where, deep inside you know you blew it, so now you're just being a petty bitter person.

                          Maybe it's time for you to run away from this thread like you did your dumb "Bounty Hunter" thread.
                          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                            With all due respect to the various comments that have been posted on this thread not one reads as anything comparable to a judicial opinion on this particular law. Opinions yes. The attempts by some individuals to present themselves as having some sort of legal expertise with respect to this law has also been duly noted.
                            Opinions just like the woman in the OP?

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                              As I noted no one has presented anything remotely resembling a judicial opinion on this law, although some do seem to have appointed themselves as" legal experts" on the matter.
                              Maybe because we actually read the law, unlike you and Ms Karvorkian, who have just raspberried nonsense out your rumps.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post

                                Opinions just like the woman in the OP?
                                BIASED opinions just like the woman in the OP.

                                ONE of us took off on the gross misrepresentations of the BIASED opinions of the abortionist in the OP.
                                ONE of us actually had dinner with lawyers from the Office of Attorney General of Texas on Tuesday night and discussed this case.

                                ONE of us is a dingbat from Germany whose expertise in this is limited to reading an article from an abortionist in NYC who knows nothing about Texas law.
                                ONE of us actually lives in Texas and deals with Texas law all the time, for over 40 years.

                                (triggering her "appealing to status" itch)
                                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                                Comment

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