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Biden and the 25th Amendment

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  • Biden and the 25th Amendment

    So, like the democrats and liberals talked about under Trump. Republicans are now bringing up the idea of using the 25th Amendment to remove Biden from office.



    CNN has suddenly found talk of using the 25th amendment to be outrageous.

    Source: https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/17/politics/rick-scott-joe-biden-25th-amendment/index.html

    The reason is simple: It's a REALLY high bar for the vice president and a majority of the presidential Cabinet to decide as a group that the president -- aka the person who chose them for their jobs -- had lost the ability to do his own job. That was, of course, on purpose. The overturning of the will of the people -- as expressed through a presidential election -- by a small group of government bureaucrats should be something that is used only in absolutely extreme circumstances.
    These are not those circumstances. Not even close.
    Rick Scott is no dummy. He knows this.What he's doing is simple: He's an ambitious politician -- Scott is mentioned as a potential 2024 presidential candidate -- who wants to throw some red meat to the base. He knows that by tossing out the outlandish idea of invoking the 25th Amendment against Biden, he will get attention -- and kudos -- from those most closely aligned with the former president.
    The problem? Words have consequences. When a sitting US senator throws out the idea of removing the president of the United States because a foreign policy decision has not gone according to plan, he degrades the seriousness of such as move. And for what? To score some cheap political points?

    © Copyright Original Source



    In 2019, he produced the following video...it was a lot less judgy, instead it was just explanatory.

    Last edited by CivilDiscourse; 08-27-2021, 05:56 AM.

  • #2
    Someone has to get the ball rolling for this eventuality.

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
    "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

    Comment


    • #3
      The 25th Amendment presents a high bar only if the sitting president is not clearly incapacitated in some fashion and unfit to serve. Otherwise, it presents an obvious, and I think uncontroversial, course of action.

      Here's the acid test: if the vice president and cabinet vote to remove the president, he can be immediately reinstated by submitting a letter to Congress declaring his fitness to serve, at which point it would require a 2/3 vote in Congress to remove him. But is Joe capable of drafting such a letter? I'm not certain he is
      Last edited by Mountain Man; 08-27-2021, 06:33 AM.
      Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
      But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
      Than a fool in the eyes of God


      From "Fools Gold" by Petra

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
        The 25th Amendment presents a high bar only if the sitting president is not clearly incapacitated in some fashion and unfit to serve. Otherwise, it presents an obvious, and I think uncontroversial, course of action.
        The high bar is that the president's own people have to be the ones who pull the trigger.

        I think the only question is how loud and long will Harris be cackling when she does it.

        I'm always still in trouble again

        "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
        "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
        "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

        Comment


        • #5
          The new story is that Biden just did what his military advisors told him to do. Mr. Buck Stops Here sure keeps shifting the blame around a lot.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Sparko View Post
            The new story is that Biden just did what his military advisors told him to do. Mr. Buck Stops Here sure keeps shifting the blame around a lot.
            "The buck stops here" is one of those things that people say because it sounds good and not because they really mean it. They may as well say, "I am willing to take responsibility for every decision for which I am willing to take responsibility."
            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
            Than a fool in the eyes of God


            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

              "The buck stops here" is one of those things that people say because it sounds good and not because they really mean it. They may as well say, "I am willing to take responsibility for every decision for which I am willing to take responsibility."
              Effectively it means I have to take responsibility for all of the screw ups other people made. It's a fancy way of saying none of this is my fault, but I'll fix it.

              I'm always still in trouble again

              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
              "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                "The buck stops here" is one of those things that people say because it sounds good and not because they really mean it. They may as well say, "I am willing to take responsibility for every decision for which I am willing to take responsibility."
                I call it "Ceremonial Responsibility." Which is where you claim the "responsibility" but accept none of the actual blame, fault, or negative consequences of that responsibility.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post
                  So, like the democrats and liberals talked about under Trump. Republicans are now bringing up the idea of using the 25th Amendment to remove Biden from office.



                  CNN has suddenly found talk of using the 25th amendment to be outrageous.

                  Source: https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/17/politics/rick-scott-joe-biden-25th-amendment/index.html

                  The reason is simple: It's a REALLY high bar for the vice president and a majority of the presidential Cabinet to decide as a group that the president -- aka the person who chose them for their jobs -- had lost the ability to do his own job. That was, of course, on purpose. The overturning of the will of the people -- as expressed through a presidential election -- by a small group of government bureaucrats should be something that is used only in absolutely extreme circumstances.
                  These are not those circumstances. Not even close.
                  Rick Scott is no dummy. He knows this.What he's doing is simple: He's an ambitious politician -- Scott is mentioned as a potential 2024 presidential candidate -- who wants to throw some red meat to the base. He knows that by tossing out the outlandish idea of invoking the 25th Amendment against Biden, he will get attention -- and kudos -- from those most closely aligned with the former president.
                  The problem? Words have consequences. When a sitting US senator throws out the idea of removing the president of the United States because a foreign policy decision has not gone according to plan, he degrades the seriousness of such as move. And for what? To score some cheap political points?

                  © Copyright Original Source



                  In 2019, he produced the following video...it was a lot less judgy, instead it was just explanatory.

                  So it seems like Chris Cillizza, at least, has been pretty consistent in his view of the 25th amendment.

                  "It's a drastic measure, reserved for only the most drastic of circumstances."

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Stoic View Post

                    So it seems like Chris Cillizza, at least, has been pretty consistent in his view of the 25th amendment.

                    "It's a drastic measure, reserved for only the most drastic of circumstances."
                    Except when it came to Trump it is a perfectly legitimate "drastic measure, reserved for only the most drastic of circumstances" whereas for Biden it is a "drastic measure, reserved for only the most drastic of circumstances" being pushed by ambitious politicians.


                    I'm always still in trouble again

                    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                    "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Won't happen.
                      "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

                      "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View Post
                        Won't happen.
                        Not at least until his usefulness is over and he is far more a liability than an asset.

                        They won't talk about it now because Afghanistan is already draining off too much attention from getting the multi-trillion pork barrel free for all they're trying to pass. Start talking 25A seriously and that will doom it.

                        Btw, I think it was one of the California papers that let it out that the old Joe wasn't using the refurbished War Room for it's actual function (heaven forbid he pay the slightest attention to the withdrawal he crafted). It was being used to push through the above mentioned attempt to give us the inflation we had in the 70s.

                        I'm always still in trouble again

                        "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                        "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                        "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                          Except when it came to Trump it is a perfectly legitimate "drastic measure, reserved for only the most drastic of circumstances" whereas for Biden it is a "drastic measure, reserved for only the most drastic of circumstances" being pushed by ambitious politicians.
                          In 2019, the 25th amendment wasn't being pushed by ambitious politicians.

                          (I suppose one could argue that in January of this year, it was being pushed by ambitious politicians of both parties. But of course that was long after Cillizza's earlier video.)

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Stoic View Post

                            In 2019, the 25th amendment wasn't being pushed by ambitious politicians.

                            (I suppose one could argue that in January of this year, it was being pushed by ambitious politicians of both parties. But of course that was long after Cillizza's earlier video.)
                            Unelected politicians like Andrew McCabe and his cohorts were doing so well before then and boasted of it.

                            I'm pretty sure Mad Max[ine] Waters (D-CA) brought it up a couple times when she wasn't demanding he be impeached (which she started virtually the day after the election).

                            There was also former Governor Bill Weld, who I guess you would call an ambitious politician, and called for it 2019, finishing with "#25thAmendment"

                            Another ambitious politician, a one term Illinois Congressman who shares the same name with the famous rocker Joe Walsh, was calling for the amendment to be "looked at" in 2019.

                            I'm sure I could come up with more with some Googling.

                            I'm always still in trouble again

                            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                            "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                              Unelected politicians like Andrew McCabe and his cohorts were doing so well before then and boasted of it.
                              Even if you consider them politicians, McCabe and "his cohorts" weren't publicly calling for the invocation of the 25th amendment.

                              I'm pretty sure Mad Max[ine] Waters (D-CA) brought it up a couple times when she wasn't demanding he be impeached (which she started virtually the day after the election).
                              I suppose that's possible, but I haven't found evidence of it.

                              There was also former Governor Bill Weld, who I guess you would call an ambitious politician, and called for it 2019, finishing with "#25thAmendment"

                              Another ambitious politician, a one term Illinois Congressman who shares the same name with the famous rocker Joe Walsh, was calling for the amendment to be "looked at" in 2019.
                              Yes, they did, late in 2019.

                              I'm sure I could come up with more with some Googling.
                              Actually, what I would like to see is something that would have been in the news before Cilliza did his video in February 2019, that would justify criticizing him for not mentioning it.

                              Comment

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