What policy for withdrawal from Afghanistan would you have advocated?

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

Given the various threads on the previous and present administrations' "bungled" approach to the evacuation of US forces from Afghanistan what policy/plan would individuals here have recommended?

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[rogue06]

One in which you don't broadcast your every intent and move to the enemy in advance.

One where they didn't think it was a good idea to evacuate the military before evacuating the civilians.

One where someone bothered creating a list of our allies so we know who to contact and to evacuate.

One where they didn't leave much of the training of the Afghan military to contractors who really had no motive to train them.

One where they have enough sense to change plans when the Taliban no longer even pretends to be holding up to their end of the bargain rather declaring that we'll proceed exactly as originally planned.

One where the person ultimately ultimately responsible doesn't go on vacation just as the feces starts to hit the fan, returns a few days later just long enough to deliver a confusing rehearsed speech and then goes back on vacation.

One in which we blew up stockpiles of arms and equipment rather than turning over hundreds of tons of some of the most advanced weapons in the world.



I'm sure I could come up with several other things like this.

[CivilDiscourse]

Given the various threads on the previous and present administrations' "bungled" approach to the evacuation of US forces from Afghanistan what policy/plan would individuals here have recommended?

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This is one of those situations where you don't need to be an expert to recognize something has gone sideways. It's the same way you don't have to be a Micheline starred chef to know your chicken has been undercooked.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

One in which you don't broadcast your every intent and move to the enemy in advance.

One where they didn't think it was a good idea to evacuate the military before evacuating the civilians.

One where someone bothered creating a list of our allies so we know who to contact and to evacuate.

One where they didn't leave much of the training of the Afghan military to contractors who really had no motive to train them.

One where they have enough sense to change plans when the Taliban no longer even pretends to be holding up to their end of the bargain rather declaring that we'll proceed exactly as originally planned.

One where the person ultimately ultimately responsible doesn't go on vacation just as the feces starts to hit the fan, returns a few days later just long enough to deliver a confusing rehearsed speech and then goes back on vacation.

One in which we blew up stockpiles of arms and equipment rather than turning over hundreds of tons of some of the most advanced weapons in the world.



I'm sure I could come up with several other things like this.

From that one might opine it has been the proverbial since Day One.

[Mountain Man]

I'm reminded of a bit from the Douglas Adams book Mostly Harmless where protagonist Arthur Dent visits a wise old sage living in a smelly cave on a filthy planet. He asks her what he should do to be successful. In response, she hands him a copy of her autobiography detailing every decision she had made throughout her life and tells Arthur that if he makes the exact opposite decisions, then maybe he won't end up living in a smelly cave on a filthy planet.

That's sort of the way I look at Joe's handling of the Afghanistan fiasco. For one thing, civilians should have been taken care of first with US citizens given high priority. Secondly, instead of the military pulling out suddenly all at once, it should have been a gradual retreat (really no other word for it) giving them plenty of time to dismantle any military installations and remove any equipment and weapons rather than letting them fall into the hands of the enemy. Finally, the military should have maintained an aggressive posture to the very end, letting the Taliban know that any attempts to invade while US boots were still on the ground would be met with superior firepower. Then, of course, there's the diplomatic angle. The US should have engaged with Afghanistan and Taliban leaders to negotiate, as much as they were able, a peaceful transition of power.

[Starlight]

Given the various threads on the previous and present administrations' "bungled" approach to the evacuation of US forces from Afghanistan what policy/plan would individuals here have recommended?

The withdrawal policy was really good overall.

A bit more security around the airport, and a bit more of a streamlined process for accepting refugees, is about all I would have nuanced differently. But both those seem to have been fixed now, so it seems fine. Arguably Biden should do a bit more on the accelerating-accepting-immigrant-refugees front, but I can see Republican politicians and voters kicking up a fuss on that, so I don't think it's worth Biden's time and effort to burn too much political capital to get a handful more Afghanis out.

I think the biggest problem with the whole thing was that the US public hadn't been primed to anticipate a rapid Taliban takeover and so were simply in shock at the speed of it. If Biden had primed them to in any way expect it, I think that would have made a huge PR difference. But that's a messaging issue, and I don't think counts in that sense as being part of the policy/plan for withdrawal.

Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done, and I think a lot more positively of Biden than I used to because of it.

If we really had a time machine to give a do-over, I'd suggest Bush not invading Afghanistan in the first place, and certainly for Obama pulling out the moment Bin Laden was killed.

[Maranatha]

Given the various threads on the previous and present administrations' "bungled" approach to the evacuation of US forces from Afghanistan what policy/plan would individuals here have recommended?

Bidens disaster is all his own. The first thing to do is not let him avoid the political costs of his failed action.

Don't forget, it's not over yet..

[CivilDiscourse]

The withdrawal policy was really good overall.

A bit more security around the airport, and a bit more of a streamlined process for accepting refugees, is about all I would have nuanced differently. But both those seem to have been fixed now, so it seems fine. Arguably Biden should do a bit more on the accelerating-accepting-immigrant-refugees front, but I can see Republican politicians and voters kicking up a fuss on that, so I don't think it's worth Biden's time and effort to burn too much political capital to get a handful more Afghanis out.

I think the biggest problem with the whole thing was that the US public hadn't been primed to anticipate a rapid Taliban takeover and so were simply in shock at the speed of it. If Biden had primed them to in any way expect it, I think that would have made a huge PR difference. But that's a messaging issue, and I don't think counts in that sense as being part of the policy/plan for withdrawal.

Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done, and I think a lot more positively of Biden than I used to because of it.

If we really had a time machine to give a do-over, I'd suggest Bush not invading Afghanistan in the first place, and certainly for Obama pulling out the moment Bin Laden was killed.

I see what your doing here.

[rogue06]

This is one of those situations where you don't need to be an expert to recognize something has gone sideways. It's the same way you don't have to be a Micheline starred chef to know your chicken has been undercooked.

Or as an uncle of mine was fond of saying, "You don't have to be the conductor to know that the train is derailed."

[Starlight]

One in which you don't broadcast your every intent and move to the enemy in advance.

This seems a stupid thing to say because evacuating tens of thousands of people from the biggest cities can't be done by stealth. It becomes obvious to the Taliban it's happening from the moment it starts happening.

Furthermore, if you want to have the Taliban not attack you while you're evacuating, it's preferable to have a peace treaty with them, like the US does. And a necessary part of having a peace treaty with someone is them knowing about it.

One where they didn't think it was a good idea to evacuate the military before evacuating the civilians.

This seems a false talking point. From what I've read the US military has maintained a continuous presence there, controlling the airport. At no point yet has the military been fully evacuated.

One where someone bothered creating a list of our allies so we know who to contact and to evacuate.

There seems a lack of will to actually take refugees from among the US contractors there.

One where they didn't leave much of the training of the Afghan military to contractors who really had no motive to train them.

This one is a failure of the US military industrial complex over a 20 year period. Nothing to do with Biden's presidency.

One where they have enough sense to change plans when the Taliban no longer even pretends to be holding up to their end of the bargain rather declaring that we'll proceed exactly as originally planned.

What are you even talking about? The current ongoing peace treaty with the Taliban, signed by Trump and continued under Biden, which the Taliban is abiding by, has ensured no further US deaths. The fact that the Taliban is abiding by the peace treaty is one of the more successful parts of this.

One where the person ultimately ultimately responsible doesn't go on vacation just as the feces starts to hit the fan, returns a few days later just long enough to deliver a confusing rehearsed speech and then goes back on vacation.

Would you prefer him to fly there and personally carry refugees away on his back? He's instructed the military and other government departments to organize and coordinate a withdrawal. Doing that is their job, not his.

One in which we blew up stockpiles of arms and equipment rather than turning over hundreds of tons of some of the most advanced weapons in the world.

The massive corruption of the ex-Afghani government, combined with the US's military industrial complex will have meant the arms that the US was giving to the ex-Afghani government will have been being siphoned off in large quantities over the past 20 years. I don't think bombing the small amount of them that can still be located by the US would make much of a difference.

[Starlight]

I see what your doing here.

I have no idea what you think your tornado picture is supposed to mean.

[rogue06]

From that one might opine it has been the proverbial since Day One.

Some of it. The providing a timetable was Trump. Pulling out the military before the civilians, stubbornly refusing to change anything even after the Taliban made it clear they weren't even pretending to uphold their end, not having teams blowing up stockpiles, and a president more concerned with his vacation is all old Joe.

[CivilDiscourse]

I have no idea what you think your tornado picture is supposed to mean.

I'm sure you don't.

[rogue06]

Bidens disaster is all his own. The first thing to do is not let him avoid the political costs of his failed action.

Don't forget, it's not over yet..

The reverberations from this will be felt for decades.

[rogue06]

This seems a stupid thing to say because evacuating tens of thousands of people from the biggest cities can't be done by stealth. It becomes obvious to the Taliban it's happening from the moment it starts happening.

And only an idiot thinks that there are only two possibilities -- completely in secret or announcing your every single move in advance.

Of course they can see American troops pulling out. Of course they have spies inside the Afghan government/military that will pass on everything they know. But ask anyone who has ever worked in Intelligence what the value of having information confirmed is. It moves from rumor and likelihood to certainty. That is a huge difference.

It's one thing to know someone is almost certainly departing sometime next week and to know they'll be leaving at precisely 4 AM Thursday morning.

I imagine even you don't need to be hand walked through why that is so.