New Zealand to enter Full Lockdown

[CivilDiscourse]

https://www.foxnews.com/world/new-ze...wn-coronavirus

Apparently, the remote island country with easy control of entry, only has 18% of it's country vaccinated. Apparently, they thought they were safe.

Of course, this full-lockdown actually happened after finding 1 covid infection in the country.

[rogue06]

https://www.foxnews.com/world/new-ze...wn-coronavirus

Apparently, the remote island country with easy control of entry, only has 18% of it's country vaccinated. Apparently, they thought they were safe.

Of course, this full-lockdown actually happened after finding 1 covid infection in the country.

I didn't know that so many Kiwis were Trump-inspired vax deniers.


TRUMP!!!!1!!eleventyone! smiley fist shake.gif

[Sparko]

I am sure Starlight approves.

[CivilDiscourse]

It's easy to control a pandemic when you have a small, sparse population, and few entry points that can be easily controlled.

My guess is that their earlier success lead to overconfidence, and a lackadaisical approach to vaccination. After all, they beat covid, they'd do it again.

[Mountain Man]

I am sure Starlight approves.

I'm sure he does. And I say that without sarcasm. He's the sort of guy who believes that it is a good idea to exchange essential liberties for a little, temporary safety.

[tabibito]

I'm sure he does. And I say that without sarcasm. He's the sort of guy who believes that it is a good idea to exchange essential liberties for a little, temporary safety.

Has it occurred to you that there might be more than one concept of "essential liberties"?

[Mountain Man]

Has it occurred to you that there might be more than one concept of "essential liberties"?

Yes, I suppose trying to define your way around the problem is one possible solution.

[tabibito]

Yes, I suppose trying to define your way around the problem is one possible solution.

Such as refusing to yield when other people try to impose their concepts of what freedom is supposed to look like, perhaps?

[Mountain Man]

Such as refusing to yield when other people try to impose their concepts of what freedom is supposed to look like, perhaps?

I was somewhat perplex by your line of argument here until I realized the military has been deployed in your country of Australia to enforce compliance with whatever restrictions the government has dreamed up to combat the China flu, and redefining liberty is the only way for you to not have to admit to yourself that you're living in a police state.

[tabibito]

I was somewhat perplex by your line of argument here until I realized the military has been deployed in your country of Australia to enforce compliance with whatever restrictions the government has dreamed up to combat the China flu, and redefining liberty is the only way for you to not have to admit to yourself that you're living in a police state.

They're doing what? That was the plan until people objected, so the plan was canned. All they have been doing is things like keeping watch within vaccination stations and delivering food parcels.
But tell me what response people should have to antivaxxer who exercises their freedom to take their child suffering from measles to a play ground, where the said child passes the disease on to a three month old baby whom it kills?

[Mountain Man]

They're doing what? That was the plan until people objected, so the plan was canned. All they have been doing is things like keeping watch within vaccination stations and delivering food parcels.
But tell me what response people should have to antivaxxer who exercises their freedom to take their child suffering from measles to a play ground, where the said child passes the disease on to a three month old baby whom it kills?

Sorry, you're right, it's not the military, it's your police who are standing on citizens' throats.

SYDNEY, Aug 14 (Reuters) - Australian police hiked fines for people breaking lockdown rules in Sydney and the rest of its home state on Saturday and strict stay-at-home orders were extended statewide amid a record jump in daily new COVID-19 infections.

State police will fine up to A$5,000 ($3,700) anyone breaching stay-at-home orders or for lying to contract-tracing officials, said state Premier Gladys Berejiklian. Previously breaching quarantine orders had carried a $1,000 fine.

As for the "anti-vaxxer" straw man, I really have no interest in dousing those flames.

[tabibito]

Sorry, you're right, it's not the military, it's your police who are standing on citizens' throats.

And strangely, no one here has any fear of the police. The idea that a person might get shot for approaching a police car carelessly doesn't occur to anyone.

SYDNEY, Aug 14 (Reuters) - Australian police hiked fines for people breaking lockdown rules in Sydney and the rest of its home state on Saturday and strict stay-at-home orders were extended statewide amid a record jump in daily new COVID-19 infections.

State police will fine up to A$5,000 ($3,700) anyone breaching stay-at-home orders or for lying to contract-tracing officials, said state Premier Gladys Berejiklian. Previously breaching quarantine orders had carried a $1,000 fine.

Police don't decide what the laws are, nor what the penalties will be for breaching those laws. Police don't hike fines - they impose them. Where the populace objected to soldiers enforcing the laws, they aren't objecting in any appreciable numbers to the police enforcing lock-down. That comes from the attitude that my freedoms end when they interfere with your freedoms.

As for the "anti-vaxxer" straw man, I really have no interest in dousing those flames.

The ethical issues raised by your kind of freedom are far from constituting a straw man.

[Mountain Man]

And strangely, no one here has any fear of the police. The idea that a person might get shot for approaching a police car carelessly doesn't occur to anyone.


Police don't decide what the laws are, nor what the penalties will be for breaching those laws. Police don't hike fines - they impose them. Where the populace objected to soldiers enforcing the laws, they aren't objecting in any appreciable numbers to the police enforcing lock-down. That comes from the attitude that my freedoms end when they interfere with your freedoms.


The ethical issues raised by your kind of freedom are far from constituting a straw man.

I have no idea what you mean by "your kind of freedom".

[Mountain Man]

This puts things into perspective:

If you watch the official press conferences and government announcements of rules and restrictions in Australia and New Zealand, you see some of the most bizarre and dystopian reactions from the government. It really is jaw-dropping and almost unbelievable how the citizens of the area are under the complete control of their government and ministries of health.

Today the extreme far-left New Zealand Prime Minister, Jacinda Ardern, announces a “level four” emergency shutdown as a result of a single case of COVID being identified yesterday. A single case.

There have been numerous people discussing how global health leaders choose Australia and New Zealand as testing grounds for how much control can be put upon society and still permit those in government to retain their authority. Previously, I dispatched those discussions because they seemed a little, well, ‘out there’; however, I did keep watching and researching… I no longer dismiss those claims. Something really weird is going on down under, and it is alarming in the extreme.

...

As a result of the renewed ‘level-four’ restrictions the people in New Zealand are instructed to stay at home, “do not talk to your neighbors”, wear a mask, maintain 2 meters social distance, and stay away from others if you leave your home for the three approved reasons: Emergency food shopping, healthcare or testing.

There is something really dystopian about government officials telling citizens to remain compliant, use QR codes, activate their bluetooth tracing and stop talking to their neighbors. There is something exponentially more alarming about citizens actually complying with these instructions.

https://theconservativetreehouse.com...onal-lockdown/

[Starlight]

only has 18% of it's country vaccinated.

We voluntarily went to the back of the international vaccine queue because morally we felt that countries with people currently dying of covid should be allowed the vaccine before we got it in a country where no one was dying of covid. We also choose to get only the best vaccine and not bother with the others. As a result, the vaccination efforts here are/were beginning to scale up rapidly about right now. About 50% of people I know got their first jab within the last month and the other 50% have it booked for next month.

In the meantime, throughout the pandemic, we have largely been able to live normal lives, with no masks, and had sports, music concerts, school and work, as normal.

Apparently, they thought they were safe.

Not exactly. There's always been emphasis by the government that cases could escape border quarantine and escape into the community. And there's been a few incidents of that happening but localized lockdowns have been able to deal with those.

What made this case different was (1) It's the delta strain, so more infectious; (2) there was no immediately obvious connection with the border, which means it's passed through some unknown number of people to reach this person, which means far more than 1 case is out there.

Of course, this full-lockdown actually happened after finding 1 covid infection in the country.

As a person who does mathematical modelling myself I am really impressed by how well the people working for the government here are modelling the risks and making lockdown recommendations proportional to the level of risk. In earlier break-out cases they recommended only very limited lockdowns for limited cities, and those did the trick for containment. As I write this, we have been in this full lockdown for 9 hours (most of which I was asleep for since it started at midnight), and the number of known positive cases has gone from 1 to 5 in that time. If the 5x growth in a 9 hour period had continued it would have led to most of the country getting covid within a few days, so it's already looking like it was the right call.

Far better for everyone to stay home for 3 days, then go back to life as normal, than have people dying of covid and having to wear masks continuously etc.

There have been numerous people discussing how global health leaders choose Australia and New Zealand as testing grounds for how much control can be put upon society and still permit those in government to retain their authority.

Anyone who actually thinks that should be seeking professional mental help if they are not already in a mental hospital.

'Global health leaders', whoever that phrase is supposed to refer to, have zero control over anything that happens in New Zealand. It doesn't seem to get through to you that we are consistently ranked as the freest and least corrupt country in the world, and one of the best-functioning and oldest democracies. No mysterious international cabal tells us anything. The government here is by the people and for the people, i.e. we actually do what America pretends it aspires to.