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Most Common Vaccines Appear to be Losing Efficacy

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  • Most Common Vaccines Appear to be Losing Efficacy

    In news that isn't, the two most commonly used vaccines in the US are showing signs of losing efficacy.

    Which is not exactly a surprise - they are up against a coronavirus - a relative of the common cold.

    Here's the annoying part - besides the 'vaccine passports' being not only unconstitutional but now a total joke - flooding the population with a vaccine that has a limited efficacy life may very well have sped up that loss of immunity process. Which makes no difference to all the young healthy people that didn't need it anyway (and used up doses that could have gone to nations that DID need it) but it makes it harder to use vaccination for what it's best at - protecting the most vulnerable.

    It's just preliminary data - we could get lucky and one or both vaccines manage to maintain immunization levels comparable to infection survival - but that was never a likely outcome.

    Could we go back to doing real public health measures now? Vaccinate the most vulnerable, use presumptive treatment on patients who are vulnerable or in close contact to those who are, target vulnerable populations with prevention information and institute serious efforts both of vaccination and treatment in nursing homes? You know - the stuff we've BEEN DOING FOR EIGHTY YEARS!!!!!!

    "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

    "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

    My Personal Blog

    My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

    Quill Sword

  • #2
    Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
    In news that isn't, the two most commonly used vaccines in the US are showing signs of losing efficacy.

    Which is not exactly a surprise - they are up against a coronavirus - a relative of the common cold.

    Here's the annoying part - besides the 'vaccine passports' being not only unconstitutional but now a total joke - flooding the population with a vaccine that has a limited efficacy life may very well have sped up that loss of immunity process. Which makes no difference to all the young healthy people that didn't need it anyway (and used up doses that could have gone to nations that DID need it) but it makes it harder to use vaccination for what it's best at - protecting the most vulnerable.

    It's just preliminary data - we could get lucky and one or both vaccines manage to maintain immunization levels comparable to infection survival - but that was never a likely outcome.

    Could we go back to doing real public health measures now? Vaccinate the most vulnerable, use presumptive treatment on patients who are vulnerable or in close contact to those who are, target vulnerable populations with prevention information and institute serious efforts both of vaccination and treatment in nursing homes? You know - the stuff we've BEEN DOING FOR EIGHTY YEARS!!!!!!

    IOW, the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines are not as effective against Delta with regard to preventing infection, but are still very effective at preventing hospitalization and death.

    As you say, this isn't really news.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Stoic View Post

      IOW, the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines are not as effective against Delta with regard to preventing infection, but are still very effective at preventing hospitalization and death.

      As you say, this isn't really news.
      And we know that how? Look, there are experts who think that they are seeing a decoupling - and they MAY be right. But the time frame is way too short and the pattern has at least two other possible explanations - I hope they are right, but the evidence doesn't yet prove it.
      "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

      "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

      My Personal Blog

      My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

      Quill Sword

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
        And we know that how?
        If I hadn't already known it, I would have found out by reading the article you linked.

        At the same time the drop in effectiveness was seen, the Delta variant of the CCP virus became much more prevalent in Minnesota, researchers noted, comprising more than 70 percent of the state’s cases.

        Meanwhile, the researchers also found that the vaccines remained highly effective against hospitalization.


        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
          Could we go back to doing real public health measures now? Vaccinate the most vulnerable, use presumptive treatment on patients who are vulnerable or in close contact to those who are, target vulnerable populations with prevention information and institute serious efforts both of vaccination and treatment in nursing homes? You know - the stuff we've BEEN DOING FOR EIGHTY YEARS!!!!!!
          Two downsides -- at least as far as the "elites" see it: 1) This would prevent those in power from controlling the population through fear; 2) Nobody is going to get filthy rich employing proven, common sense measures to dealing with illnesses.
          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
          Than a fool in the eyes of God


          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

          Comment


          • #6

            But even with the reduced effectiveness against the Delta variant it is still a very effective vaccine compared to other vaccines like the flu vaccine. We have always known we might need booster shots or they might need to adjust the vaccine as new variants come around. But so far the vaccine is working against all of the variants we have going around, even Delta.

            The FDA just approved a third shot for immuno-compromised people. Just waiting on the CDC to also agree and I will be getting mine ASAP.


            Comment


            • #7
              I've found it interesting that there has been little mention of a boaster for J&J. On this morning's news there was a brief article about vaccine effectiveness and J&J held up over time including against the Delta variant. Again this is something time will tell on.
              "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

              "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View Post
                I've found it interesting that there has been little mention of a boaster for J&J. On this morning's news there was a brief article about vaccine effectiveness and J&J held up over time including against the Delta variant. Again this is something time will tell on.
                I had the Pfizer but if they let me I am going to get the Moderna as my booster shot. The Moderna had better results on immuno-compromized people as far as generating antibodies and the Johns Hopkins study I read said that even held true when Pfizer recipients got the Moderna as a booster.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Sparko View Post

                  I had the Pfizer but if they let me I am going to get the Moderna as my booster shot. The Moderna had better results on immuno-compromized people as far as generating antibodies and the Johns Hopkins study I read said that even held true when Pfizer recipients got the Moderna as a booster.
                  There's been some discussion about the value of cross vaccination. I think it's being looked at, but haven't heard anything from it.
                  https://www.dw.com/en/mix-and-match-...hot/a-57819127

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Sparko View Post

                    I had the Pfizer but if they let me I am going to get the Moderna as my booster shot. The Moderna had better results on immuno-compromized people as far as generating antibodies and the Johns Hopkins study I read said that even held true when Pfizer recipients got the Moderna as a booster.
                    Source: https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/08/13/1027461542/cdc-panel-recommends-3rd-covid-vaccine-dose-for-immunocompromised-people


                    The CDC said attempts should be made to match the additional dose type to the one used in the original set of shots someone receives. But if that is not feasible, an additional dose with the other vaccine is permitted. The additional dose should be administered at least 28 days after completion of the primary vaccine series, according to the data reviewed by the committee.

                    © Copyright Original Source

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Stoic View Post

                      Source: https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/08/13/1027461542/cdc-panel-recommends-3rd-covid-vaccine-dose-for-immunocompromised-people


                      The CDC said attempts should be made to match the additional dose type to the one used in the original set of shots someone receives. But if that is not feasible, an additional dose with the other vaccine is permitted. The additional dose should be administered at least 28 days after completion of the primary vaccine series, according to the data reviewed by the committee.

                      © Copyright Original Source

                      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8252023/

                      of the people who had Pfizer for the first two shots, the ones who got Moderna as their third shot had better results than those who got Pfizer as the third shot, so I am going to try to insist on that for me.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Stoic View Post

                        Source: https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/08/13/1027461542/cdc-panel-recommends-3rd-covid-vaccine-dose-for-immunocompromised-people


                        The CDC said attempts should be made to match the additional dose type to the one used in the original set of shots someone receives. But if that is not feasible, an additional dose with the other vaccine is permitted. The additional dose should be administered at least 28 days after completion of the primary vaccine series, according to the data reviewed by the committee.

                        © Copyright Original Source

                        If recent history is any indication, they will offer a contradictory recommendation within a month or two.
                        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                        Than a fool in the eyes of God


                        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                          But even with the reduced effectiveness against the Delta variant it is still a very effective vaccine compared to other vaccines like the flu vaccine. We have always known we might need booster shots or they might need to adjust the vaccine as new variants come around. But so far the vaccine is working against all of the variants we have going around, even Delta.

                          The FDA just approved a third shot for immuno-compromised people. Just waiting on the CDC to also agree and I will be getting mine ASAP.
                          Er, no - not exactly. It's no where near as good as the flu vaccine (which isn't great but is good) - it's efficacy is dropping much more quickly than natural immunity. Natural immunity doesn't appear permanent (this is an unknown - but there are indications) but it is holding out after a year and a half (plus) but the vaccines are showing reduced efficacy within 8 months. Flu shots are good for the year they need to be and some longer than that (which doesn't matter really - still need to get them annually) so in terms of length of efficacy, flu shots win.

                          We can barely get folks that NEED flu shots to take them - there's no way to make a medically unnecessary (for most people) vaccine that needs biannual or more boosters workable for a general population application. For the folks that need them, sure, it's hard but doable. But not for healthy people at little or no risk - and mandating is not only legally untenable but will prove disasterous for future public health campaigns.

                          "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                          "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                          My Personal Blog

                          My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                          Quill Sword

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Sparko View Post

                            https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8252023/

                            of the people who had Pfizer for the first two shots, the ones who got Moderna as their third shot had better results than those who got Pfizer as the third shot, so I am going to try to insist on that for me.
                            That's what I would do if I were in your shoes. Good luck.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                              If recent history is any indication, they will offer a contradictory recommendation within a month or two.
                              I certainly wouldn't rule out the possibility. You have to make decisions with the best information you have at the time.

                              Comment

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