Mass Psychosis

[Mountain Man]

As Starlight pointed out, you need to find someone who was killed by the vaccine, not someone who happened to die after getting the vaccine.

You're right, it's all just one big coincidence.

This is what I refer to as the "Show me the evidence. Oh, wait, not that evidence!" routine. Is that all you have, just hand wave after hand wave?

[Stoic]

In my country only the Pfizer vaccine is being used, and the government agency tracking the adverse vaccine reactions keeps noting:

To date, the observed number of deaths reported after vaccination is actually less than the expected number of deaths [from all causes that their demographic would have been expected to normally have]

I guess the most likely cause of that is that people who are at death's door due to other medical conditions aren't being given the vaccine. (In other countries these stats would be confused due to vaccinated people not dying of covid, but since we mostly haven't had any covid here there won't yet have been any lives saved by the vaccine to mess up the stats, so the vaccine safety data is a lot cleaner)

I suppose it has been an easy call (so far) in your country, to not vaccinate anyone who is particularly frail. But if Delta becomes endemic, as seems likely, it may no longer be such an easy call.

The agency hasn't yet found a single death that it's been able to conclude was caused by the vaccine, after 3 million doses have been given in my country.

It's interesting that the anti-vaxxers seem prepared to risk their lives with the ~1% or ~0.1% (depending on age etc) chance of death by Covid (or much higher if elderly and at risk due to other conditions), but they're too scared to get a vaccine who's risk of death is less than 1 in 3 million. It's almost like they're totally irrational and don't understand basic statistical probability.

I think it's deeper than that. You can't accept the probability unless you trust the numbers that it's based on. But the numbers come from the government, and some people automatically distrust the government. And it's not just a healthy suspicion, but a complete disregard for the value of any communications coming from the government.

[Starlight]

As Starlight pointed out, you need to find someone who was killed by the vaccine, not someone who happened to die after getting the vaccine.

In my country only the Pfizer vaccine is being used, and the government agency tracking the adverse vaccine reactions keeps noting:

To date, the observed number of deaths reported after vaccination is actually less than the expected number of deaths [from all causes that their demographic would have been expected to normally have]

I guess the most likely cause of that is that people who are at death's door due to other medical conditions aren't being given the vaccine. (In other countries these stats would be confused due to vaccinated people not dying of covid, but since we mostly haven't had any covid here there won't yet have been any lives saved by the vaccine to mess up the stats, so the vaccine safety data is a lot cleaner)

The agency hasn't yet found a single death that it's been able to conclude was caused by the vaccine, after 3 million doses have been given in my country.

It's interesting that the anti-vaxxers seem prepared to risk their lives with the ~1% or ~0.1% (depending on age etc) chance of death by Covid (or much higher if elderly and at risk due to other conditions), but they're too scared to get a vaccine who's risk of death is less than 1 in 3 million. It's almost like they're totally irrational and don't understand basic statistical probability.

[Stoic]

Seriously? Took me like five seconds.

Doctor who mocked coronavirus vaccine refusers dies days after getting jabbed

48-Year-Old Surgeon DEAD Who Wildly Mocked “Anti-vaxxers” after Moderna COVID Injections

(While these sound similar, they're actually different people.)

As Starlight pointed out, you need to find someone who was killed by the vaccine, not someone who happened to die after getting the vaccine.

[Starlight]

Seriously? Took me like five seconds.

Doctor who mocked coronavirus vaccine refusers dies days after getting jabbed

48-Year-Old Surgeon DEAD Who Wildly Mocked “Anti-vaxxers” after Moderna COVID Injections

(While these sound similar, they're actually different people.)

It's painful how stupid you are... people die of random stuff all the time, and someone dying of random other things in a week following a vaccine doesn't mean the vaccine caused it.

Here is a Polish article about the first guy, in google translate his daughter says:

“Dad has had heart disease for a long time. About 15 years ago he had a heart attack, he also had other diseases: diabetes, high blood pressure. He had felt worse for some time. He also had atrial fibrillation. On Monday, my dad probably had a second heart attack. He also had pulmonary edema and heart failure. The death certificate reads: “sudden cardiac arrest”... His death has nothing to do with taking the second dose of the vaccine.” - Małgorzata Rogiewicz

Here is a fact check on the second guy:

Flanigan’s death was not related to the vaccine, Amy Flanigan, his wife, told USA TODAY... Flanigan died from an undiagnosed aortic dissection.

It seems a pretty consistent pattern with you that almost everything you post can be debunked by less than a minute of googling. Are you too stupid and gullible that you actually fall for this stuff? Or are you just trying to trick everyone else?

[Mountain Man]

Can you?

I'm pretty sure you can't. Prove me wrong.

Seriously? Took me like five seconds.

Doctor who mocked coronavirus vaccine refusers dies days after getting jabbed

48-Year-Old Surgeon DEAD Who Wildly Mocked “Anti-vaxxers” after Moderna COVID Injections

(While these sound similar, they're actually different people.)

[Stoic]

Yes, and you can find stories about people who mocked others for not getting the China flu vaccine who ended up being killed by it.

Can you?

I'm pretty sure you can't. Prove me wrong.

[mikewhitney]

you realize that the shots just cause the body to create antibodies right? So an in vitro tests of various antibodies is still applicable to vaccines, as well as the antibodies created from a natural infection and antibodies given convelescently, right? Antibodies are antibodies. ADE can occur naturally or from a vaccine. What happens is that the antibodies, instead of neutralizing a virus, actually enhance it's ability to enter a human cell. When it does that, the person gets a much worse infection. That isn't happening with the vaccines. All test show that the vaccines are 95%+ effective at stopping infection. if there was vaccine caused ADE, it would show up as being WAY less effective, since the vaccinated people would be getting sick faster and worse than unvaccinated people. That ain't happening.

from the summary of results in the paper:

administration of COVID-19 convalescent sera to over
35,000 COVID-19 patients has demonstrated the treatment to be
safe and is not associated with enhanced disease (Joyner et al.,
2020). Of greater importance is that both the Pfizer/BioNTech
and Moderna mRNA-lipid nanoparticle (LNP) vaccine efficacy tri-
als have completed and showed 95% vaccine efficacy (Jack-
son et al., 2020;Polack et al., 2020). That the Moderna mRNA-
LNP COVID-19 vaccine efficacy trial had 30 severe cases of
COVID-19 occur—all in the placebo group (Baden et al., 2021),
demonstrated that, if ADE of infection or lung pathology will
occur in humans with vaccination, it will be rare.

You are aware that beyond creating antibodies that these shots make the cells into spike generators. It is the spikes that add to the problems. The body works in an unnatural way. Plus, we do not know the long term consequences of this experiment that already is reported as being done on not just 1000s but billions of people.

We also know that the efficacy was only 1% absolute efficacy. So it is that maybe 130 people have to get the shot in order for one person to actually have benefitted.

We also have learned that the shots are going down to about %60 percent efficacy within months and down to 16% after about 6 months. This makes the shots a complete flop. At some point we just say that we have to give up on all these "solutions" that did not work. At some point we would just need to recognize that we have to go on living our lives with whatever risks there are -- something that people have had to do forever.

[mikewhitney]

Maybe they don't want to end up like this guy. Or this guy.

Exactly. The media and medical system dissuade doctors from treating patients with Ivermectin and Vitamin-D that the patients die because these were not readily available so as to prevent these deaths. Maybe the media should promote these solutions too -- give a choice. It still is unimaginable that the typical person under 40 or 50 is pushed to take shots that harm as much as a heal. Maybe it would help if the media shared times that people were hesitant to become part of the covid shot experiment but finally gave in and were killed from it. It is far from any science to just print these scattered articles like the ones you present here.

[Mountain Man]

Maybe they don't want to end up like this guy. Or this guy.

Yes, and you can find stories about people who mocked others for not getting the China flu vaccine who ended up being killed by it.

[Sparko]

I looked further at the study that was done. (In vitro and in vivo functions of SARS-CoV-2 infection-enhancing and neutralizing antibodies https://www.cell.com/action/showPdf?...2821%2900756-X ). It turns out the study has nothing to do with the shots but is done using monoclonal antibodies. So Kristina may have taken a weak approach in her article.

you realize that the shots just cause the body to create antibodies right? So an in vitro tests of various antibodies is still applicable to vaccines, as well as the antibodies created from a natural infection and antibodies given convelescently, right? Antibodies are antibodies. ADE can occur naturally or from a vaccine. What happens is that the antibodies, instead of neutralizing a virus, actually enhance it's ability to enter a human cell. When it does that, the person gets a much worse infection. That isn't happening with the vaccines. All test show that the vaccines are 95%+ effective at stopping infection. if there was vaccine caused ADE, it would show up as being WAY less effective, since the vaccinated people would be getting sick faster and worse than unvaccinated people. That ain't happening.

from the summary of results in the paper:

administration of COVID-19 convalescent sera to over
35,000 COVID-19 patients has demonstrated the treatment to be
safe and is not associated with enhanced disease (Joyner et al.,
2020). Of greater importance is that both the Pfizer/BioNTech
and Moderna mRNA-lipid nanoparticle (LNP) vaccine efficacy tri-
als have completed and showed 95% vaccine efficacy (Jack-
son et al., 2020;Polack et al., 2020). That the Moderna mRNA-
LNP COVID-19 vaccine efficacy trial had 30 severe cases of
COVID-19 occur—all in the placebo group (Baden et al., 2021),
demonstrated that, if ADE of infection or lung pathology will
occur in humans with vaccination, it will be rare.

[Stoic]

Is there some reason that people would not want to take simple true-and-tried steps to protect their health?

Maybe they don't want to end up like this guy. Or this guy.

[mikewhitney]

You are being disingenuous Mike. It wasn't an "opinion" piece. And you still are just handwaving away the fact that you tried to sneak a study in regarding an entirely different virus and vaccine and claim it was relevant to COVID-19.

The fact is if ADE was a factor in the COVID vaccines, it would cause vaccinated people to get SICKER than unvaccinated people. And as I have shown with data from hospitals that overwhelmingly those who are hospitalized are unvaccinated and most of the deaths are from unvaccinated. Most vaccinated breakthrough infections are mild and do not require hospitalizations, which means ADE is NOT occuring. No "studies" needed.

I looked further at the study that was done. (In vitro and in vivo functions of SARS-CoV-2 infection-enhancing and neutralizing antibodies https://www.cell.com/action/showPdf?...2821%2900756-X ). It turns out the study has nothing to do with the shots but is done using monoclonal antibodies. So Kristina may have taken a weak approach in her article.

[Mountain Man]

Is there some reason that people would not want to take simple true-and-tried steps to protect their health?

People want easy solutions that don't require them to change their habits.

"You say I should eat healthy, take vitamins, and exercise? Screw that! Just give me the 'The Jab'!"

[mikewhitney]

You are being disingenuous Mike. It wasn't an "opinion" piece. And you still are just handwaving away the fact that you tried to sneak a study in regarding an entirely different virus and vaccine and claim it was relevant to COVID-19.

The fact is if ADE was a factor in the COVID vaccines, it would cause vaccinated people to get SICKER than unvaccinated people. And as I have shown with data from hospitals that overwhelmingly those who are hospitalized are unvaccinated and most of the deaths are from unvaccinated. Most vaccinated breakthrough infections are mild and do not require hospitalizations, which means ADE is NOT occuring. No "studies" needed.

Did you provide a scientific study? I missed what trials Kristina led. Sorry if I skim too fast to notice the methodology used. The article is not actually about conspiracy theories but is about differing scientific views. As presented, it just is an attempt to rebut the views of some scientists. Sure, you can side with the article if you feel it satisfies your search. A little more rigor would be useful if Kristina wants to make an impact.

Sorry again if I did not clarify to you that this was a study before 2020. As I understand things, all attempts before 2020 to create a vaccine against coronaviruses have all led to failures that led to harm or death of the test animals. This was just one specific with use of a spike protein. It is rather bold then that the science changed so drastically from 2019 to 2020 that we can now be certain that not just 1, nor just 2, but 20 or so of the so-called vaccines were produced suddenly in 2020 that have overcome all the difficulties that existed until 2020. How often havei

Sorry also if I missed seeing which hospitals you gathered data from. We're in a sad state if all we have is a NYT article -- the ones who have promoted Mass Psychosis so that people do not look in depth into the science. I have not decided on this one thing shared -- namely the variants have formed where the shots were first being tested. I specifically had seen where there was a new and unusual disease (probably back in October 2020) in India, in the town where trials were going on for a vaccine. More important was the analysis shared at http://www.nakim.org/israel-forums/v...c.php?t=270812 showing the hospitalizations and deaths increased as a result of the covid shots. This also appears in India, who, until that time, had been spared from much covid-19 deaths. I would tend to guess that the NYT data is selected only to promote the data that supports their narrative -- one of Mass Psychosis.