Originally posted by Sea of red
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The right to die?
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Originally posted by Darth Xena View PostMy life is my own, and that entails the right to say I have had enough for whatever reason I deem fit.
So on day of resurrection of everyone you'll take it up with Almighty One?Remember that you are dust and to dust you shall return.
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Originally posted by Darth Xena View PostNice straw man. I never said everything is an absolutely right. Particularly since I am a hard deontological libertarian, I obviously don't think EVERYTHING is a right.
But whether or not *I* have to live IS the most fundamental of rights. Nothing is more. Without it, there is no real right to "life." My life is my own, and that entails the right to say I have had enough for whatever reason I deem fit.
You may be able to commit suicide - but that doesn't make it a right. The idea that life is only meaningfully yours if you can end it is ridiculous - you don't need to end it for it to be yours and if it were true that it can only be your life if you have the ability to decide between life and death then it cannot logically be your life even if you had a right to kill yourself because you CAN'T make yourself live. Death will come - it is inevitable (sans the Second coming, of course). You can't even will your hair color let alone will yourself immortality. If your life belonging to you is tied to your ability to control life itself then it doesn't belong to you and you don't have the right to take that life. By your own premise, there is no right to die."He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
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Originally posted by Sea of red View PostRighto.
If the government can force us to live, then we are not truly free.
Incidentally, did you flunk bio? God has that kind of power - not government. No one,except Him, can 'force' you to live. That isn't the debate at all- it's whether or not you can kill people who want to die for whatever reason."He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
My Personal Blog
My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)
Quill Sword
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Originally posted by Sea of red View PostNot everything should be up to mob rule."He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
My Personal Blog
My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)
Quill Sword
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Originally posted by Teallaura View PostThere absolutely is not. Not everything is a right.Originally posted by Teallaura View PostYou skipped about a hundred steps there. You don't have the right to breathe air. The world is not descending into mob rule just because no one bothered to codify breathing air as a right.I'm not here anymore.
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Originally posted by Teallaura View PostYou skipped about a hundred steps there. You don't have the right to breathe air. The world is not descending into mob rule just because no one bothered to codify breathing air as a right.
I think you are the one skipping pretty merrily.The State. Ideas so good they have to be mandatory.
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Originally posted by Carrikature View PostI think you're using 'right' in the legally protected sense (as I would do) and not in the basic liberty sense. SoR and DX seem to be using the latter.
IF the law tomorrow gave me the legal right to die, it didn't create that right. And Teal would say that just because the law says so doesn't either since she denies a right to an abortion (as do I).The State. Ideas so good they have to be mandatory.
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Originally posted by Teallaura View PostOkay, out of curiosity, what noun or verb can go before that comma and this sentence not be true in your view?
Incidentally, did you flunk bio? God has that kind of power - not government. No one,except Him, can 'force' you to live. That isn't the debate at all- it's whether or not you can kill people who want to die for whatever reason.
I cannot imagine the mindset that says no, you don't have a right to die in the manner of your choosing and for information and assistance if consensual.The State. Ideas so good they have to be mandatory.
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Originally posted by Teallaura View PostNot a strawman - it's not a right.
You may be able to commit suicide - but that doesn't make it a right.
The idea that life is only meaningfully yours if you can end it is ridiculous - you don't need to end it for it to be yours...
and if it were true that it can only be your life if you have the ability to decide between life and death then it cannot logically be your life even if you had a right to kill yourself because you CAN'T make yourself live.
Death will come - it is inevitable (sans the Second coming, of course). You can't even will your hair color let alone will yourself immortality. If your life belonging to you is tied to your ability to control life itself then it doesn't belong to you and you don't have the right to take that life. By your own premise, there is no right to die.
So hungry to control other people.The State. Ideas so good they have to be mandatory.
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Originally posted by Darth Xena View PostActually breathing air is a right since you need air to live and if someone deprives you of that, they are guilty of trying to kill you.
I do not understand why a minarchist would demand rights, since those are generally codified and enforced by governments. I'd think, to avoid confusion, you'd refer to liberties rather than rights.Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom
Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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I'm not a minarchist.
And no rights are not codified by governments. And anarchists are not opposed to governments. They are opposed to the state. There is a difference. Libertarian anarchists tend to be firm deontologists and hold to natural rights.
Breathing is a necessity to life. You have a right to life. Breathing is part and parcel of that. Thus it is a right.The State. Ideas so good they have to be mandatory.
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Originally posted by Darth Xena View PostYou have a right to life.Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom
Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by Teallaura View PostOkay, out of curiosity, what noun or verb can go before that comma and this sentence not be true in your view?
Incidentally, did you flunk bio? God has that kind of power - not government. No one,except Him, can 'force' you to live. That isn't the debate at all- it's whether or not you can kill people who want to die for whatever reason.
I wouldn't been given a BS in physics and an MS in astronomy had I flunked biology class, Teal. While we're on the topic though, what science degrees do you have?
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