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Is Solar Energy Poised to be the World's Biggest Polluter?

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  • Is Solar Energy Poised to be the World's Biggest Polluter?

    Say what?

    Okay, not solar power itself but rather the manufacture of the solar panels.

    Source: Behind the Rise of U.S. Solar Power, a Mountain of Chinese Coal


    Reliance on coal-fired electricity to produce solar panels raises concerns in the West

    Solar panel installations are surging in the U.S. and Europe as Western countries seek to cut their reliance on fossil fuels.

    But the West faces a conundrum as it installs panels on small rooftops and in sprawling desert arrays: Most of them are produced with energy from carbon-dioxide-belching, coal-burning plants in China.

    Concerns are mounting in the U.S. and Europe that the solar industry's reliance on Chinese coal will create a big increase in emissions in the coming years as manufacturers rapidly scale up production of solar panels to meet demand. That would make the solar industry one of the world's most prolific polluters, analysts say, undermining some of the emissions reductions achieved from widespread adoption.

    For years, China’s low-cost, coal-fired electricity has given the country's solar-panel manufacturers a competitive advantage, allowing them to dominate global markets.

    Chinese factories supply more than three-quarters of the world's polysilicon, an essential component in most solar panels, according to industry analyst Johannes Bernreuter. Polysilicon factories refine silicon metal using a process that consumes large amounts of electricity, making access to cheap power a cost advantage. Chinese authorities have built an array of coal-burning power plants in sparsely populated areas such as Xinjiang and Inner Mongolia to support polysilicon manufacturers and other energy-hungry industries.

    Producing a solar panel in China creates around twice as much carbon dioxide as making it in Europe, said Fengqi You, professor of energy systems engineering at Cornell University. In some countries or regions that don't rely heavily on fossil fuels for electricity generation, such as Norway and France, installing a high-carbon, Chinese-made solar panel might not reduce emissions at all, Mr. You said.

    "Yes, we are clean" in the West, said Mr. You. "But then the process of getting these panels from another country -- China now, maybe somewhere else later -- produces a lot of emissions."

    Scientists say, however, that installing Chinese-made panels almost always results in a net reduction in carbon dioxide emissions over time, because the panels are usually replacing electricity generated from fossil fuels. The emissions avoided after the first few years of a solar panel's 30-year lifespan can offset the emissions required to produce it.

    Some Western governments and corporations are attempting to shift the solar industry away from coal. Companies that buy renewable energy are laying the groundwork to favor low-carbon solar panels when financing solar projects. The U.S. federal government is drafting a policy to do the same when it buys solar panels, said a spokesman for the Environmental Protection Agency. And the European Union is considering whether to regulate the carbon content of panels sold throughout the 27-nation bloc, EU officials say.

    These policies would also help rebuild the West's solar industry, which has withered under competition from higher-polluting Chinese producers, Western executives say.

    U.S. solar power capacity in the last two years has jumped 48%, according to consulting firm Wood Mackenzie. In Europe, it is up 34%. Those installations amount to tens of thousands of solar panels shipped each year.

    "Large energy buyers can influence supply chains," said Jen Snook of the Renewable Energy Buyers Alliance, which represents Amazon.com Inc., Salesforce.com Inc. and more than 200 other corporations. "Solar hopefully will continue on a very strong growth rate, and we want to ensure that growth is sustainable."

    The dilemma is becoming more apparent as world leaders prepare to meet in Glasgow, Scotland, in November to make a new push to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. Part of that effort involves coaxing China, the world's largest emitter, to shift away from coal-burning electricity to slash emissions even as the West gorges on Chinese gear from solar panels to lightweight aluminum for electric vehicles. At a July meeting of environment ministers from the Group of 20 leading economies, China and India blocked an agreement to phase out coal-fired electricity.

    Finding alternatives won't be easy. China's surging and cheaper polysilicon production has harmed U.S. producers, forcing the shutdown of several factories that use power sources with lower carbon emissions than Chinese producers. Wacker Chemie AG , the West's largest producer of solar-grade polysilicon, pays up to four times as much for power at its factories in Germany compared with Chinese producers in Xinjiang, said company spokesman Christof Bachmair.

    China has pushed down the price of panels so sharply that solar power is now less expensive than electricity generated from fossil fuels in many markets around the world. Imports of the solar cells that make up the panels are also flooding into the U.S. and Europe.

    Those shipments are either coming directly from China or contain key components made in China.

    "If China didn't have access to coal, then solar power wouldn't be cheap now," said Robbie Andrew, a senior researcher at the Center for International Climate Research in Oslo. "Is it OK that we've had this huge bulge of carbon emissions from China because it allowed them to develop all these technologies really cheaply? We might not know that for another 30 to 40 years."

    Some Chinese polysilicon producers are well-placed to respond to Western demand for low-carbon panels. Tongwei, the world's largest producer, has some factories that run on hydropower. However, Daqo New Energy and GCL Poly, Tongwei's main Chinese competitors, rely overwhelmingly on coal, according to the companies.

    France is one of the few countries that regulate the carbon content of solar panels, requiring low-carbon panels for large solar projects. That has encouraged some Chinese panel manufacturers to use renewable energy in some processes, allowing them to sell into the French market. South Korea this year adopted rules inspired by the French system, and other European countries have expressed interest, officials from the region say.

    China's dominance of the solar supply chain also makes it harder on the handful of companies that are trying to rebuild solar-panel capacity in the West. China is home to most of the companies that slice polysilicon into wafers, package the wafers into cells and assemble the cells into panels. U.S. tariffs on Chinese solar panels and cells have pushed Chinese companies to set up factories for these parts in other countries.

    JinkoSolar, a Chinese firm, built a panel assembly plant in Florida to supply NextEra Energy, one of the largest U.S. renewable-energy companies. But the wafer and polysilicon are from China, analysts say.

    Italian energy company Enel SpA is planning to expand its solar-panel factory in Sicily, one of the few left in Europe, but the factory will still rely on silicon wafers coming from China.

    "We would be happy if the other part of the value chain would be established in Europe," said Antonello Irace, director of the factory in Sicily. "Think about sustainability, think about labor conditions, think about logistics costs and proximity."

    Beijing has further hobbled Western efforts by placing tariffs on U.S. polysilicon as part of a long-running trade dispute over solar panels. That blocked U.S. producers from selling raw material to Chinese wafering factories—which have more than 95% of global capacity—leaving them with almost no buyers for their product.

    The tariffs led REC Silicon AS A in 2019 to idle a plant in Moses Lake, Wash., that runs on carbon-free hydropower. The company hoped negotiations between the Trump administration and Beijing would result in the tariffs being dropped. Instead, Beijing last year extended the tariffs for five years.

    "We have a lot of polysilicon capacity," said David Feldman, a researcher at the U.S. government's National Renewable Energy Laboratory, "and it would be good for them to have customers."



    Source

    © Copyright Original Source



    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
    "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

  • #2
    And windmill blades.
    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

    Comment


    • #3
      Seems a strangely written article. It literally says:
      The emissions avoided after the first few years of a solar panel's 30-year lifespan can offset the emissions required to produce it.

      But the rest of the article seems like it's worried that solar panels cause more emissions than they reduce.

      Comment


      • #4
        It's ironic how toxic and damaging to the environment these "green" technologies really are.
        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
        Than a fool in the eyes of God


        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Starlight View Post
          Seems a strangely written article. It literally says:
          The emissions avoided after the first few years of a solar panel's 30-year lifespan can offset the emissions required to produce it.

          But the rest of the article seems like it's worried that solar panels cause more emissions than they reduce.
          Not solar panels themselves, of course, but the cost of producing them. The whole green thing is... I think I posted an article sometime back about the cost of recycling windmill blades - they are an ecological disaster.
          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

          Comment


          • #6
            I've seen strong agreement among scientists that nuclear power is a good solution.

            Unfortunately conservatives in the West seem to oppose nuclear energy in the developing world (e.g. Iran), and liberals in the West seem to oppose it in the developed world. So, I guess we're mainly stuck with hydro, solar and wind as the viable green options. I'm disappointed China's not making more of an effort to go to nuclear power. Would've thought that would be a really good option for them, given it produces a lot of power for relatively little fuel... seems weird they've gone so heavily into coal rather than nuclear.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
              Say what?

              Okay, not solar power itself but rather the manufacture of the solar panels.

              Source: Behind the Rise of U.S. Solar Power, a Mountain of Chinese Coal


              Reliance on coal-fired electricity to produce solar panels raises concerns in the West

              Solar panel installations are surging in the U.S. and Europe as Western countries seek to cut their reliance on fossil fuels.

              But the West faces a conundrum as it installs panels on small rooftops and in sprawling desert arrays: Most of them are produced with energy from carbon-dioxide-belching, coal-burning plants in China.

              Concerns are mounting in the U.S. and Europe that the solar industry's reliance on Chinese coal will create a big increase in emissions in the coming years as manufacturers rapidly scale up production of solar panels to meet demand. That would make the solar industry one of the world's most prolific polluters, analysts say, undermining some of the emissions reductions achieved from widespread adoption.

              For years, China’s low-cost, coal-fired electricity has given the country's solar-panel manufacturers a competitive advantage, allowing them to dominate global markets.

              Chinese factories supply more than three-quarters of the world's polysilicon, an essential component in most solar panels, according to industry analyst Johannes Bernreuter. Polysilicon factories refine silicon metal using a process that consumes large amounts of electricity, making access to cheap power a cost advantage. Chinese authorities have built an array of coal-burning power plants in sparsely populated areas such as Xinjiang and Inner Mongolia to support polysilicon manufacturers and other energy-hungry industries.

              Producing a solar panel in China creates around twice as much carbon dioxide as making it in Europe, said Fengqi You, professor of energy systems engineering at Cornell University. In some countries or regions that don't rely heavily on fossil fuels for electricity generation, such as Norway and France, installing a high-carbon, Chinese-made solar panel might not reduce emissions at all, Mr. You said.

              "Yes, we are clean" in the West, said Mr. You. "But then the process of getting these panels from another country -- China now, maybe somewhere else later -- produces a lot of emissions."

              Scientists say, however, that installing Chinese-made panels almost always results in a net reduction in carbon dioxide emissions over time, because the panels are usually replacing electricity generated from fossil fuels. The emissions avoided after the first few years of a solar panel's 30-year lifespan can offset the emissions required to produce it.

              Some Western governments and corporations are attempting to shift the solar industry away from coal. Companies that buy renewable energy are laying the groundwork to favor low-carbon solar panels when financing solar projects. The U.S. federal government is drafting a policy to do the same when it buys solar panels, said a spokesman for the Environmental Protection Agency. And the European Union is considering whether to regulate the carbon content of panels sold throughout the 27-nation bloc, EU officials say.

              These policies would also help rebuild the West's solar industry, which has withered under competition from higher-polluting Chinese producers, Western executives say.

              U.S. solar power capacity in the last two years has jumped 48%, according to consulting firm Wood Mackenzie. In Europe, it is up 34%. Those installations amount to tens of thousands of solar panels shipped each year.

              "Large energy buyers can influence supply chains," said Jen Snook of the Renewable Energy Buyers Alliance, which represents Amazon.com Inc., Salesforce.com Inc. and more than 200 other corporations. "Solar hopefully will continue on a very strong growth rate, and we want to ensure that growth is sustainable."

              The dilemma is becoming more apparent as world leaders prepare to meet in Glasgow, Scotland, in November to make a new push to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. Part of that effort involves coaxing China, the world's largest emitter, to shift away from coal-burning electricity to slash emissions even as the West gorges on Chinese gear from solar panels to lightweight aluminum for electric vehicles. At a July meeting of environment ministers from the Group of 20 leading economies, China and India blocked an agreement to phase out coal-fired electricity.

              Finding alternatives won't be easy. China's surging and cheaper polysilicon production has harmed U.S. producers, forcing the shutdown of several factories that use power sources with lower carbon emissions than Chinese producers. Wacker Chemie AG , the West's largest producer of solar-grade polysilicon, pays up to four times as much for power at its factories in Germany compared with Chinese producers in Xinjiang, said company spokesman Christof Bachmair.

              China has pushed down the price of panels so sharply that solar power is now less expensive than electricity generated from fossil fuels in many markets around the world. Imports of the solar cells that make up the panels are also flooding into the U.S. and Europe.

              Those shipments are either coming directly from China or contain key components made in China.

              "If China didn't have access to coal, then solar power wouldn't be cheap now," said Robbie Andrew, a senior researcher at the Center for International Climate Research in Oslo. "Is it OK that we've had this huge bulge of carbon emissions from China because it allowed them to develop all these technologies really cheaply? We might not know that for another 30 to 40 years."

              Some Chinese polysilicon producers are well-placed to respond to Western demand for low-carbon panels. Tongwei, the world's largest producer, has some factories that run on hydropower. However, Daqo New Energy and GCL Poly, Tongwei's main Chinese competitors, rely overwhelmingly on coal, according to the companies.

              France is one of the few countries that regulate the carbon content of solar panels, requiring low-carbon panels for large solar projects. That has encouraged some Chinese panel manufacturers to use renewable energy in some processes, allowing them to sell into the French market. South Korea this year adopted rules inspired by the French system, and other European countries have expressed interest, officials from the region say.

              China's dominance of the solar supply chain also makes it harder on the handful of companies that are trying to rebuild solar-panel capacity in the West. China is home to most of the companies that slice polysilicon into wafers, package the wafers into cells and assemble the cells into panels. U.S. tariffs on Chinese solar panels and cells have pushed Chinese companies to set up factories for these parts in other countries.

              JinkoSolar, a Chinese firm, built a panel assembly plant in Florida to supply NextEra Energy, one of the largest U.S. renewable-energy companies. But the wafer and polysilicon are from China, analysts say.

              Italian energy company Enel SpA is planning to expand its solar-panel factory in Sicily, one of the few left in Europe, but the factory will still rely on silicon wafers coming from China.

              "We would be happy if the other part of the value chain would be established in Europe," said Antonello Irace, director of the factory in Sicily. "Think about sustainability, think about labor conditions, think about logistics costs and proximity."

              Beijing has further hobbled Western efforts by placing tariffs on U.S. polysilicon as part of a long-running trade dispute over solar panels. That blocked U.S. producers from selling raw material to Chinese wafering factories—which have more than 95% of global capacity—leaving them with almost no buyers for their product.

              The tariffs led REC Silicon AS A in 2019 to idle a plant in Moses Lake, Wash., that runs on carbon-free hydropower. The company hoped negotiations between the Trump administration and Beijing would result in the tariffs being dropped. Instead, Beijing last year extended the tariffs for five years.

              "We have a lot of polysilicon capacity," said David Feldman, a researcher at the U.S. government's National Renewable Energy Laboratory, "and it would be good for them to have customers."



              Source

              © Copyright Original Source

              Yep. That's not even mentioning the environmental damage of the massive mines for the rare earth minerals used in the batteries needed for adequate storage.

              (Or the fact that several key components for electric vehicles come currently only from a specific part of China that manufactures them using Uyghur concentration camps/slaves. Those ole blood diamonds have nothing on the blood EVs)

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                I've seen strong agreement among scientists that nuclear power is a good solution.

                Unfortunately conservatives in the West seem to oppose nuclear energy in the developing world (e.g. Iran), and liberals in the West seem to oppose it in the developed world. So, I guess we're mainly stuck with hydro, solar and wind as the viable green options. I'm disappointed China's not making more of an effort to go to nuclear power. Would've thought that would be a really good option for them, given it produces a lot of power for relatively little fuel... seems weird they've gone so heavily into coal rather than nuclear.
                Laughing. Conservatives in the west don't want Iran - one of the world's largest supporters of terrorism - to have nuclear weapons. The really gullible apparently think Iran is a kind and loving country who only wants nuclear power and has no interest whatsoever in nuclear weapons.

                You picked a HORRIBLE example.

                It was the liberals in the US who were against nuclear power -- but even they seem to be coming around.

                The problem with building nuclear power plants in the US is the incredible regulatory bureaucracy that makes them almost impossible to be profitable.
                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                Comment


                • #9
                  What so many recent inventions and/or energy saving policies are demonstrating is that by attempting to reduce one environmental problem western societies simply create further problems. Electric transport is a good example. Yes, in and of itself, electricity is clean but it has to be generated. Likewise, as the link shows, the production in China of solar panels is creating more pollution. As Gondwanaland noted the environmental [and social impact] of mining for minerals, given the often appalling conditions endured by the miners many only minors themselves, creates further environmental degradation and human misery.

                  The reality is that our present way of life is not sustainable. We cannot have all our "stuff" [consumer durables, clothes, food including meat etc] without adversely impacting on the environment.

                  However, it is becoming ever more apparent that we have done too little too late and it will be the fate of future generations to live with the effects.
                  "It ain't necessarily so
                  The things that you're liable
                  To read in the Bible
                  It ain't necessarily so
                  ."

                  Sportin' Life
                  Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                    What so many recent inventions and/or energy saving policies are demonstrating is that by attempting to reduce one environmental problem western societies simply create further problems. Electric transport is a good example. Yes, in and of itself, electricity is clean but it has to be generated. Likewise, as the link shows, the production in China of solar panels is creating more pollution. As Gondwanaland noted the environmental [and social impact] of mining for minerals, given the often appalling conditions endured by the miners many only minors themselves, creates further environmental degradation and human misery.
                    A) Who are you and what have you done with H_A? (I'm largely in agreement)
                    2) What about nuclear energy?

                    The reality is that our present way of life is not sustainable. We cannot have all our "stuff" [consumer durables, clothes, food including meat etc] without adversely impacting on the environment.
                    What are you giving up?

                    However, it is becoming ever more apparent that we have done too little too late and it will be the fate of future generations to live with the effects.
                    I think there are far more people wanting to get rich on "green policies" than actually wanting to work the problem toward an actual solution.

                    And there's a serious problem of "you need to do what I'm not willing to do". (give up private jets, big comfortable houses, etc)

                    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                      2) What about nuclear energy?
                      We still have the problem of the disposal of nuclear waste and the risk of possible accidents.

                      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                      What are you giving up?
                      We no longer eat meat. We "make do and mend" with regard to consumer durables. We do have computers [I am using mine now] but the tower is over ten years old. We have not flown anywhere for some time - even before the pandemic- and we recently got rid of the car [given the pandemic it was not being used anyway] and we are fortunate here with public transport, although it could be more efficient. And of course we have the bikes.

                      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                      I think there are far more people wanting to get rich on "green policies" than actually wanting to work the problem toward an actual solution.
                      I think there are too many people wanting to get rich and have that private jet, huge house etc.

                      It is also about not being wasteful. Having parents who lived through the war we were instilled with a strong habit of recycling and not wasting. That has not changed and we educated our own children to be equally careful. Not wasting water, turning of lights and televisions or other electrical appliances when rooms are unoccupied, putting on another pullover rather than turning up the heating, and never wasting food.

                      When I was a child I remember my mother carefully smoothing out brown paper from parcels and balling string to be used at a later date even though she could quite easily purchase both parcel paper and balls of string from the local store. She had retained the habits of her youth and her attitude was, why throw away perfectly serviceable items and then go out and buy more? That view has stayed with me.
                      Last edited by Hypatia_Alexandria; 08-02-2021, 05:40 PM.
                      "It ain't necessarily so
                      The things that you're liable
                      To read in the Bible
                      It ain't necessarily so
                      ."

                      Sportin' Life
                      Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                        We still have the problem of the disposal of nuclear waste and the risk of possible accidents.

                        We no longer eat meat. We "make do and mend" with regard to consumer durables. We do have computers [I am using mine now] but the tower is over ten years old. We have not flown anywhere for some time - even before the pandemic- and we recently got rid of the car [given the pandemic it was not being used anyway] and we are fortunate here with public transport, although it could be more efficient. And of course we have the bikes.

                        I think there are too many people wanting to get rich and have that private jet, huge house etc.

                        It is also about not being wasteful. Having parents who lived through the war we were instilled with a strong habit of recycling and not wasting. That has not changed and we educated our own children to be equally careful. Not wasting water, turning of lights and televisions or other electrical appliances when rooms are unoccupied, putting on another pullover rather than turning up the heating, and never wasting food.

                        When I was a child I remember my mother carefully smoothing out brown paper from parcels and balling string to be used at a later date even though she could quite easily purchase both parcel paper and balls of string from the local store. She had retained the habits of her youth and her attitude was, why throw away perfectly serviceable items and then go out and buy more? That view has stayed with me.
                        Those of us with parents and grandparents who lived through or even raised a family during the Depression over here, saw those traits -- and some of us picked up on them.

                        What I know about cooking is largely from my grandmother who raised 5 kids during the Depression. If an edge of some cheese or a slice of bread showed some mold, she tore it off and used the rest.

                        I'm always still in trouble again

                        "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                        "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                        "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                          Those of us with parents and grandparents who lived through or even raised a family during the Depression over here, saw those traits -- and some of us picked up on them.

                          What I know about cooking is largely from my grandmother who raised 5 kids during the Depression. If an edge of some cheese or a slice of bread showed some mold, she tore it off and used the rest.
                          Is this a version of the Four Yorkshiremen sketch?

                          My apologies for being flippant but seriously all of Europe suffered in the 1930s from the Depression and here during WW1 we had starvation caused by the British blockade. If you were taught not to waste food that is [to use my grandmother's phrase] a blessing. It appalls me that so much food is wasted in western countries while in other parts of the world people are going hungry.
                          "It ain't necessarily so
                          The things that you're liable
                          To read in the Bible
                          It ain't necessarily so
                          ."

                          Sportin' Life
                          Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                            We still have the problem of the disposal of nuclear waste and the risk of possible accidents.
                            That's part of the whole risk/reward scenario.
                            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                              That's part of the whole risk/reward scenario.
                              Can the planet afford to take that risk?

                              And where do we store all that nuclear waste?

                              We need to be using far less energy.
                              "It ain't necessarily so
                              The things that you're liable
                              To read in the Bible
                              It ain't necessarily so
                              ."

                              Sportin' Life
                              Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                              Comment

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