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A personal proposition to extend US democracy and improve civics

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  • Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post

    Again, you seem to be complaining that someone responded to a thread you started. Makes about as much sense as complaining that someone responded to a post you made to them.

    Though, I noticed Rogue kicked you out of Rogues thread. Remember what I said about allowing you to post...
    You really have issues with comprehension, don't you? There is no complaint on my part. I am simply stating the fact that no one forces you to respond to anything I write.

    Given that you have cited the thread started by rogu06 I am now formally requesting you cease posting to this thread.

    You can consider your own words about permission to post!
    "It ain't necessarily so
    The things that you're liable
    To read in the Bible
    It ain't necessarily so
    ."

    Sportin' Life
    Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

      You really have issues with comprehension, don't you? There is no complaint on my part. I am simply stating the fact that no one forces you to respond to anything I write.

      Given that you have cited the thread started by rogu06 I am now formally requesting you cease posting to this thread.

      You can consider your own words about permission to post!
      Jawohl, mein Fuhrer!, remember not to continue to defend child rape while I'm gone!

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
        However, given the alacrity with which you responded to this thread which I posted yesterday at 11.29 [my time] and to which you made your first reply at 11.52 [my time] it would appear you simply cannot resist from responding to what I write.
        Personally, I don't see how we ever managed without you!

        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

          You really have issues with comprehension, don't you? There is no complaint on my part. I am simply stating the fact that no one forces you to respond to anything I write.

          Given that you have cited the thread started by rogu06 I am now formally requesting you cease posting to this thread.

          You can consider your own words about permission to post!
          I think you and I should join forces to show everybody how kind and loving we can be.
          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by tabibito View Post
            People who want to have a say have the option of becoming citizens. Not becoming a citizen is prima facie evidence that the person is not committed to the country in question.



            On the basis of that, it seems that the US doesn't even require exclusive citizenship.
            It is by no means "good civics" to allow foreigners to have a say in the affairs of a country - not unless the people of that country place no value on their own culture, anyway.
            ^ That.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

              If they are have settled status and are contributing that country's economy, paying their local and federal taxes, abiding by the laws of that country etc. I can see no reason why they should not.
              Then why don't they get their US citizenship? It's not that hard. They just need to know how the government works basically and swear loyalty to the USA. Both things they should already know and do if they are living under a green card. Or are you also wanting illegal aliens the right to vote too?


              Comment


              • Originally posted by Sparko View Post

                Then why don't they get their US citizenship? It's not that hard. They just need to know how the government works basically and swear loyalty to the USA. Both things they should already know and do if they are living under a green card. Or are you also wanting illegal aliens the right to vote too?
                That's the key - the naturalization oath causes them to proclaim allegiance to the US, and reject all other loyalties to other countries.

                There are many who want to vote for nefarious or questionable motives, and they should not be allowed.
                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by RumTumTugger View Post

                  I"m sorry Hypatia, you are wrong the US does not allow dual citizenship. I ought to know my husband who was born in Germany because his father was stationed there held dual citizenship becuase Germany allows it but at age 18 in accordance with U.S law in order to vote he had to make a choice renounce his German Citizenship or not vote in our elections as a U.S. Citizen, same with the son and daughter of close friends of ours who's father was stationed in Wales when they were born.
                  I had to do the same when I turned 18, but since then they have changed to allow US citizens to hold dual citizenships. Not sure about voting in both countries though. You might need to be a resident in whichever country you want to vote in.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Sparko View Post

                    Then why don't they get their US citizenship? It's not that hard. They just need to know how the government works basically and swear loyalty to the USA. Both things they should already know and do if they are living under a green card. Or are you also wanting illegal aliens the right to vote too?
                    I posted an op-ed piece purely for interest . I am not advocating that Ms Abrahamian's suggestions should be adopted, although I do consider that she makes some valid points re extending democracy and good civics.

                    "It ain't necessarily so
                    The things that you're liable
                    To read in the Bible
                    It ain't necessarily so
                    ."

                    Sportin' Life
                    Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                      I posted an op-ed piece purely for interest . I am not advocating that Ms Abrahamian's suggestions should be adopted, although I do consider that she makes some valid points re extending democracy and good civics.
                      But in the U.S. Not so much for the country that you live in.

                      I'm always still in trouble again

                      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                        I posted an op-ed piece purely for interest . I am not advocating that Ms Abrahamian's suggestions should be adopted, although I do consider that she makes some valid points re extending democracy and good civics.
                        It is in a county's best interest to only have citizens vote in things that effect the government itself. There is a process for anyone who wants to vote to be able to vote: naturalization. If they cannot be bothered to go to the effort to become a citizen, why would a government want them to give their input on the election of government officials?


                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Sparko View Post

                          It is in a county's best interest to only have citizens vote in things that effect the government itself. There is a process for anyone who wants to vote to be able to vote: naturalization. If they cannot be bothered to go to the effort to become a citizen, why would a government want them to give their input on the election of government officials?
                          Well at least that is a rational reply that resists vituperation and personal abuse, for which I thank you.

                          I take your points but the argument is being presented that for people spending several years in a country for their work there may be a desire to retain citizenship from their country origin, so that on completion of their contract they may return home.

                          However, Ms Abrahamian holds that it is not unreasonable to permit non citizens who are present within the USA for some considerable period of time and contributing to the economy in various ways, to have some say in the running of the country.

                          I agree it would be quite unique were the USA to adopt such a policy as most countries do not permit non citizens to vote in national elections. However, she postulates that it might help revitalise US politics, improve civics, and send a message to the rest of the world for adopting a more encompassing democratic process.




                          "It ain't necessarily so
                          The things that you're liable
                          To read in the Bible
                          It ain't necessarily so
                          ."

                          Sportin' Life
                          Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                            But in the U.S. Not so much for the country that you live in.
                            This is a US board and is preoccupied with matters within the USA.
                            "It ain't necessarily so
                            The things that you're liable
                            To read in the Bible
                            It ain't necessarily so
                            ."

                            Sportin' Life
                            Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                              Well at least that is a rational reply that resists vituperation and personal abuse, for which I thank you.

                              I take your points but the argument is being presented that for people spending several years in a country for their work there may be a desire to retain citizenship from their country origin, so that on completion of their contract they may return home.

                              However, Ms Abrahamian holds that it is not unreasonable to permit non citizens who are present within the USA for some considerable period of time and contributing to the economy in various ways, to have some say in the running of the country.

                              I agree it would be quite unique were the USA to adopt such a policy as most countries do not permit non citizens to vote in national elections. However, she postulates that it might help revitalise US politics, improve civics, and send a message to the rest of the world for adopting a more encompassing democratic process.
                              Perhaps she prefers waffles over pancakes!
                              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                                This is a US board and is preoccupied with matters within the USA.
                                I amen'd this. But it sure seems like we have more than our share of ferreners trying to tell us how to run our business.
                                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                                Comment

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