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  • #31
    Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post

    Thank you for that advice.

    Question, do YOU think non citizens should vote in a country's national election?
    If they are have settled status and are contributing that country's economy, paying their local and federal taxes, abiding by the laws of that country etc. I can see no reason why they should not.
    "It ain't necessarily so
    The things that you're liable
    To read in the Bible
    It ain't necessarily so
    ."

    Sportin' Life
    Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

      If they are have settled status and are contributing that country's economy, paying their local and federal taxes, abiding by the laws of that country etc. I can see no reason why they should not.
      And what if the law of the country is "You must be a citizen to vote"?

      To put it another way, if someone is not vested enough in the country in which they're living to become a citizen, then they're not vested enough to have a say from the ballot box as to how that country is run.
      Last edited by Mountain Man; 07-31-2021, 09:33 AM.
      Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
      But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
      Than a fool in the eyes of God


      From "Fools Gold" by Petra

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

        If they are have settled status and are contributing that country's economy, paying their local and federal taxes, abiding by the laws of that country etc. I can see no reason why they should not.
        Aside from "settled status," the same argument could be used to support allowing tourists to vote - in many ways, more so: they do not draw on any government services.
        sigpic1 Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Starlight View Post

          As I mentioned, we have non-citizen voting in my country. I don't support it and think we should remove it. The most noticeable effect is that there's a large non-citizen Chinese immigrant voting bloc who appear to be more loyal to China and appear to cast votes primarily based on which party supports China the most.
          For the sarcastically impaired the following is said in jest

          You only oppose it because you're obvious a racist



          I'm always still in trouble again

          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
          "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by Starlight View Post
            In my country such people can vote.

            Since there is approximately a 0% chance Republicans would support this, and 100% chance they'd go off their rockers and do something worse than Jan 6th if the Democrats did manage to pass it, what's the point of floating the idea?
            You're getting even more psycho as you age.

            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

              If they are have settled status and are contributing that country's economy, paying their local and federal taxes, abiding by the laws of that country etc. I can see no reason why they should not.
              If she's a legal settled resident, then I have no problem letting her vote, provided she renounce loyalty to her home country, and become a citizen through the naturalization process.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                If they are have settled status and are contributing that country's economy, paying their local and federal taxes, abiding by the laws of that country etc. I can see no reason why they should not.
                Well, they'd have to lie about the citizenship question....

                Who Can and Can’t Vote in U.S. Elections

                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by tabibito View Post

                  Aside from "settled status," the same argument could be used to support allowing tourists to vote - in many ways, more so: they do not draw on any government services.
                  Given that the article was specifically referencing those with "settled status" and not tourists, your comment is irrelevant.
                  "It ain't necessarily so
                  The things that you're liable
                  To read in the Bible
                  It ain't necessarily so
                  ."

                  Sportin' Life
                  Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                    Well, they'd have to lie about the citizenship question....

                    Who Can and Can’t Vote in U.S. Elections
                    My reply was in response to this:

                    Question, do YOU think non citizens should vote in a country's national election?
                    "It ain't necessarily so
                    The things that you're liable
                    To read in the Bible
                    It ain't necessarily so
                    ."

                    Sportin' Life
                    Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                      My reply was in response to this:

                      Question, do YOU think non citizens should vote in a country's national election?
                      I think people in the US should obey the laws of this country, which currently prohibit non-citizens from voting.
                      If they want to vote, they should become citizens.
                      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post

                        If she's a legal settled resident, then I have no problem letting her vote, provided she renounce loyalty to her home country, and become a citizen through the naturalization process.
                        Then it would not apply to Ms Abrahamian's points.

                        I am still waiting for someone to put forward a coherent argument as to why they consider Ms Abrahamian's remarks to be wrong and/or injudicious/inappropriate.
                        "It ain't necessarily so
                        The things that you're liable
                        To read in the Bible
                        It ain't necessarily so
                        ."

                        Sportin' Life
                        Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                          Then it would not apply to Ms Abrahamian's points.

                          I am still waiting for someone to put forward a coherent argument as to why they consider Ms Abrahamian's remarks to be wrong and/or injudicious/inappropriate.
                          One of the privileges of liviving in this country is that one is free to say stupid things.

                          It seems you people look at voting as more of a shareholder thing --- "I contribute money, therefore I get to vote in corporate matters".

                          Citizenship is more precious than shareholder status.
                          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                            I think people in the US should obey the laws of this country, which currently prohibit non-citizens from voting.
                            If they want to vote, they should become citizens.
                            Given that in some areas of the USA non-citizens with settled status can vote on local matters, what specific issues do you have with such individuals not having that right extended to vote at a state or federal level?
                            "It ain't necessarily so
                            The things that you're liable
                            To read in the Bible
                            It ain't necessarily so
                            ."

                            Sportin' Life
                            Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                              One of the privileges of liviving in this country is that one is free to say stupid things.

                              It seems you people look at voting as more of a shareholder thing --- "I contribute money, therefore I get to vote in corporate matters".

                              Citizenship is more precious than shareholder status.
                              What is your view of Ms Abrahamian's suggestion that permitting that minority to vote would "give American democracy new life, restore immigrants’ trust in government and send a powerful message of inclusion to the rest of the world"?

                              Or her observation that "The more voters show up to the polls, the more accurately elections reflect people’s desires. The United States already has plenty of institutions that account for noncitizens: The census aims to reach all residents because it believes everyone, even aliens, matters. Corporations enjoy free speech and legal personhood — and they’re not even people. Would it be such a stretch to give noncitizen residents a say in who gets elected to their state legislature, Congress or the White House?"


                              "It ain't necessarily so
                              The things that you're liable
                              To read in the Bible
                              It ain't necessarily so
                              ."

                              Sportin' Life
                              Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                                What is your view of Ms Abrahamian's suggestion that permitting that minority to vote would "give American democracy new life, restore immigrants’ trust in government and send a powerful message of inclusion to the rest of the world"?

                                Or her observation that "The more voters show up to the polls, the more accurately elections reflect people’s desires. The United States already has plenty of institutions that account for noncitizens: The census aims to reach all residents because it believes everyone, even aliens, matters. Corporations enjoy free speech and legal personhood — and they’re not even people. Would it be such a stretch to give noncitizen residents a say in who gets elected to their state legislature, Congress or the White House?"

                                A) I think she's nuttier than a fruitcake
                                2) The US is not responsible to "send a powerful message of inclusion to the rest of the world", or any other kind of "message"
                                C) I think foreigners like you should focus on your own country and leave us alone

                                Citizenship requires an allegiance to this country -- there's a reason for that.
                                And that reason extends to why only citizens should be allowed to vote.



                                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                                Comment

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