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Ashli Babbitt’s Mom Speaks

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
    There is plenty of reportage that individuals were armed in various ways. Whether you wish to accept that or not is entirely another matter.
    And yet the Congressional hearings, which hyped and exaggerated everything when they were straight out fabricating things (i.e., Sicknick dying as a result of being hit over the head with a fire extinguisher), somehow managed to miss these armed insurrectionists. Go figure. Something that could have really supported their case completely forgotten.

    Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
    Well they would have had to either completely take down the door or do as she did and climb through the broken glass pane.
    While surrounded by police.

    The fact is they didn't. This sad excuse you are offering here is like saying you were justified in shooting someone because they had some friends across the street.

    Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
    Yet I understand that that an intruder may be shot if they are entering a property "uninvited".
    If they feel their life was threatened.

    While it is legal for a homeowner to do so if they felt that their life was endangered, this unarmed woman posed no threat to the armed trigger happy cop.


    Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
    Is this another of your "senior moments"?


    Some things never change

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
    "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
      Has it occurred to anyone that given the depth of feeling concerning this incident among some Americans, it has been deemed judicious to withhold the name of the officer in order to protect both him and his immediate family?
      Yes, Captain Obvious, that has been discussed. But "deemed judicious" by whom? An unarmed woman was shot to death, and we still don't know by whom?
      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post

        Sounds like a good Idea...I wonder why that's not done for cops that BLM decides to protest?
        Remember all the furor over the media's insistence that the Federal Officers who intervened in Portland "were not identified"? We even had a couple posters ranting about "the secret police".
        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
          Here in the US, there are rules of engagement for police regarding deadly force.

          The officer who used deadly force in this situation seems to have demonstrated no reliance whatsoever on any training or rules of engagement.

          There was no immediate threat to his life - he had no real reason to believe she had a deadly weapon - or ANY weapon.

          In any other environment, that would NOT have been ruled a justifiable use of deadly force.
          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post

            Police were standing directly behind that crowd, behind her in particular. The person who shot nearly hit them.
            t was, by all appearance, a "panic shooting" not a justified use of deadly force.
            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

              Yes, Captain Obvious, that has been discussed. But "deemed judicious" by whom? An unarmed woman was shot to death, and we still don't know by whom?
              In circumstances like that, how should a knapsack be evaluated?
              sigpic1 Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

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              • #37
                Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                And AFAICT (we need Cow Poke or myth to verify) police are trained to never start shooting in situations like that unless the person is an immediate and deadly threat -- which nobody can seriously claim she was
                His response should have been to identify himself as a police officer, demand they stop, and warn that deadly force would be used if they did not.

                Instead, he peaks in and out of side cover, and even his firing of his gun looks like somebody who had no firearms training.

                She was not yet an immediate threat - one woman trying to climb through a window - and he had a clear view of both of her hands.

                Not only we he unaware that there were officers on the other side of the door, but the officers on the other side of the door were unaware that the shooter was there.

                Had he called out a warning, the other officers may have had an opportunity to respond and avoid an unjustified shooting.
                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                  Breaking and entering? With a crowd behind them?
                  I don't know about your country, but breaking and entering in the US is not a capital offense, "crowd behind them" or no.



                  The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by tabibito View Post

                    In circumstances like that, how should a knapsack be evaluated?
                    It should be considered a knapsack.

                    You're thinking maybe it was a bomb? Or that the shooter thought it was a bomb?

                    Both of her hands were visible as she was trying to climb through the window.

                    Had the officer shouted a warning, the officers immediately on the other side of the door could have reacted.

                    The officers who were RIGHT BEHIND her didn't seem terribly worried about the knapsack, did they?

                    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                      There is plenty of reportage that individuals were armed in various ways.......
                      A) There was a LOT of misinformation that day.
                      2) There was a LOT of "after the fact" information AND misinformation that day.
                      C) You would have to give evidence that the shooter was aware of "reportage" that there were armed individuals. There is no such evidence.
                      IV) The shooter has to be judged on what he knew at the time, what he witnessed, and his own actions.

                      He saw a woman trying to climb through a window, and there is no evidence that he identified himself as a police officer, or demanded that she cease, or take any non-lethal action to stop her.

                      He simply shot her and she died.

                      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                        A) There was a LOT of misinformation that day.
                        Indeed and it would appear there most probably still is.


                        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                        He saw a woman trying to climb through a window, and there is no evidence that he identified himself as a police officer, or demanded that she cease, or take any non-lethal action to stop her.
                        And we assume he was aware of the crowd entering the Capitol and the concerns that must have raised.

                        It was an unfortunate incident but if she had not believed all her nonsense and left after the rally, rather than marching to the Capitol, she would probably still be alive today.


                        "It ain't necessarily so
                        The things that you're liable
                        To read in the Bible
                        It ain't necessarily so
                        ."

                        Sportin' Life
                        Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                          Indeed and it would appear there most probably still is.
                          Including the repeating of the outright lie that a Capitol Police officer was bludgeoned to death with a fire extinguisher.
                          That is a lie of political value.

                          And we assume he was aware of the crowd entering the Capitol and the concerns that must have raised.
                          So, what -- every officer should be allowed to "shoot at will"?

                          It was an unfortunate incident
                          "an 'unfortunate incident'"?

                          but if she had not believed all her nonsense and left after the rally, rather than marching to the Capitol, she would probably still be alive today.
                          Ah - BLAME THE VICTIM!!!

                          A) "Not marching to the Capitol" is no guarantee of mortality. She could always be run over by a cement truck.
                          2) While it is factually true that she would not have been killed had she not been there (brilliant work on your part) it is ALSO true that she would not be dead if she had not been shot by a police officer who appeared to be in panic mode.

                          When we discuss the wrongful deaths of black men who were, indeed, committing crimes (many threads here), we (conservatives) make both observations...
                          a) had he not been there committing the crime....
                          2) it is STILL wrong, regardless of that element, to kill somebody without just cause.

                          You seem to be jumping through hoops to blame the victim and excuse the shooter.





                          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                            And AFAICT (we need Cow Poke or myth to verify) police are trained to never start shooting in situations like that unless the person is an immediate and deadly threat -- which nobody can seriously claim she was
                            Don't personally know but that would seem to make sense. It would seem that shooting in a situation like that would be a good way to create a human crush and kill more people than just the person you're shooting at. We've seen very deadly human crushes come about just from someone shooting off fireworks in a very crowded area.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                              It was an unfortunate incident but if she had not believed all her nonsense and left after the rally, rather than marching to the Capitol, she would probably still be alive today.

                              "If that rape victim had not dressed in slutty clothes, and put on heavy makeup, and not had a beer or two, or not walked down that dark street, or not been out at midnight, she wouldn't have gotten raped". That's what a victim-blaming clown you're sounding like right now.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                                It should be considered a knapsack.

                                You're thinking maybe it was a bomb? Or that the shooter thought it was a bomb?

                                Both of her hands were visible as she was trying to climb through the window.

                                Had the officer shouted a warning, the officers immediately on the other side of the door could have reacted.

                                The officers who were RIGHT BEHIND her didn't seem terribly worried about the knapsack, did they?
                                Fair enough.
                                sigpic1 Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

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