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Select Committee Hearing on January 6th riot

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  • Guys, this little Hitler apologetic derail really needs to be some place else.
    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

    Comment


    • That's why I started a new thread on the topic. This one is hopelessly off topic.
      "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

      "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post


        It was a politely worded letter signed by between 16 and 20 individuals with the majority of businessmen who were approached refusing to sign it. Furthermore there is no evidence that a letter signed by a few individuals had any impact on Hindenburg.
        Comical floundering, flailing and failing as predicted.

        Just "a politely worded letter."

        Naturally ALL simple "politely worded letters" get their own Wikipedia entry and are known by a specific term like "Industrielleneingabe" (Industrialist petition). I'll bet there's a bunch of "politely worded letters" of no real significance that are treated the same way. Like maybe a letter sent to Hindenburg by a bunch of ladies in a neighborhood asking him to get the local government to fill a coupe of potholes which is widely known as the "Hausenfrau Schlagloch" petition.

        Note that the other various petitions sent by various groups to Hindenburg and calling on him to appoint Hitler chancellor don't have separate listings or even their own specific name.

        And funny how often that "politely worded letter" is included in timelines describing the important events in the Nazis rise to power
        HERE, HERE, HERE and HERE for just a few examples.

        As for it's influence...

        Source: INDUSTRIELLENEINGABE



        [...]

        The Industrielleneingabe was first published in 1956 in the Zeitschrift für Geschichtswissenschaft and is used as evidence to support the idea that big business played a central role in the rise of the Nazi Party.


        Source

        © Copyright Original Source



        Source: Adolf Hitler's rise to power


        Another notable event was the publication of the Industrielleneingabe, a letter signed by 22 important representatives of industry, finance and agriculture, asking Hindenburg to appoint Hitler as chancellor.


        Source

        © Copyright Original Source


        This was originally posted HERE but apparently was copied at the above source.

        Finally, there is an article/entry, obviously translated into English, Industrielleneingabe that points out that it was "handwritten in very large letters, so that Hindenburg could read them personally."


        And it appears that maybe it was not as polite as you want us to believe. For instance, from the German political scientist and historian Albert Scharenberg's online book Concerned Citizens for Hitler which focuses on how "the old elites were not the only ones to support Hitler -- it was also the bourgeois centre."

        Source: Concerned Citizens for Hitler


        Corporate Backers

        First and foremost, there was the support Hitler received from the business world. The strength of the support from this camp during the rise of the Nazi Party between 1928 and 1932 is a topic of discussion in the academic literature. What is nonetheless certain is that this pre-existing, substantial support increased sharply during the months immediately prior to the transfer of power.

        [...]


        A significant index of corporate support was the so-called Industrielleneingabe (Industrialists’ Petition) sent to Hindenburg on 19 November 1932 by industry representatives, bankers, and major agriculturalists—including the former (and later) president of the Reichsbank,Hjalmar Schacht, business magnate Fritz Thyssen, and Eberhard Graf von Kalkreuth, president of the Imperial Agricultural League. In this letter, they demanded Hitler’s appointment as chancellor, which they describe as “the propitious commencement of an era that, through the overcoming of class antagonisms, will create the vital basis for a resurgence of the German economy.”


        Source

        © Copyright Original Source



        So in this "politely worded letter" these leading businessmen "demanded Hitler’s appointment as chancellor."

        I'll note that Scharenberg also states that the book "Großindustrie, Staat und NSDAP 1930–1933 rightly questions the decisive role that some Marxist historians attribute to this petition" -- but that serves to note just how important that this letter has been seen by historians not counting fakers who pretend to be historians. The issue is whether it was given too much importance (a "decisive role") -- which definitely indicates that this "politely worded letter" most certainly had an "impact on Hindenburg."

        He also observed that how "In the following weeks, ever more business representatives declared their support for Hitler." So it looks like some of those who were hesitant to sign this "politely worded letter" demanding that Hitler be appointed chancellor were jumping onboard the Nazi band wagon.



        Maybe you should go back to your claiming that the the Reichstag Fire Decree (a.k.a., Decree of the Reich President for the Protection of People and State -- Verordnung des Reichspräsidenten zum Schutz von Volk und Staat) and the Enabling Act of 1933 (Law to Remedy the Distress of People and Reich -- Gesetz zur Behebung der Not von Volk und Reich) are "one and the same" thing.
        Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

        Your also appear confused over emergency decrees to wit your comment that power “was signed over willingly as seen by the Enabling Act and Reichstag Fire Decree” This was one and the same emergency decree. Your comment suggests there were two separate such decrees. There were not.



        Talk about confused. The Reichstag Fire Decree was a decree signed into effect by Hindenburg on February 28, 1933 the day after the fire. It stripped civil rights from the German people, largely in order to prosecute communists.

        The Enabling Act of 1933 was an act passed by the German Parliament nearly a full month later, on March 23 and transferred power from the Parliament and Hindenburg to his cabinet and especially the chancellor (Hitler).

        While related, not even remotely close to being, as you erroneously declared, "one and the same emergency decree." My "comment suggests there were two separate such decrees" because they were two separate acts.


        You may now recommence with the floundering, flailing and failing












        I'm always still in trouble again

        "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
        "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
        "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
          Guys, this little Hitler apologetic derail really needs to be some place else.
          Maybe they can be split to a separate thread

          I'm always still in trouble again

          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
          "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

          Comment


          • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
            Just "a politely worded letter." ​​​​
            Yes.

            https://www.ns-archiv.de/nsdap/foerd...hindenburg.php

            Ew. Exzellenz, Hochzuverehrender Herr Reichspräsident!

            Gleich Eurer Exzellenz durchdrungen von heißer Liebe zum deutschen Volk und Vaterland, haben die Unterzeichneten die grundsätzliche Wandlung, die Eure Exzellenz in der Führung der Staatsgeschäfte angebahnt haben, mit Hoffnung begrüßt. Mit Eurer Exzellenz bejahen wir die Notwendigkeit einer vom parlamentarischen Parteiwesen unabhängigen Regierung, wie sie in dem von Eurer Exzellenz formulierten Gedanken eines Präsidialkabinetts zum Ausdruck kommt.
            Der Ausgang der Reichstagswahl vom 6. November d. J. hat gezeigt, daß das derzeitige Kabinett, dessen aufrechten Willen niemand im deutschen Volke bezweifelt, für den von ihm eingeschlagenen Weg keine ausreichende Stütze im deutschen Volk gefunden hat, daß aber das von Eurer Exzellenz gezeigte Ziel eine volle Mehrheit im deutschen Volke besitzt, wenn man - wie es geschehen muß - von der staatsverneinenden kommunistischen Partei absieht. Gegen das bisherige parlamentarische Parteiregime sind nicht nur die Deutschnationale Volkspartei und die ihr nahestehenden kleineren Gruppen, sondern auch die Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei grundsätzlich eingestellt und haben damit das Ziel Eurer Exzellenz bejaht. Wir halten dieses Ergebnis für außerordentlich erfreulich und können uns nicht vorstellen, daß die Verwirklichung des Zieles nunmehr an der Beibehaltung einer unwirksamen Methode scheitern sollte.

            Es ist klar, daß eine des öfteren wiederholte Reichstagsauflösung mit sich häufenden, den Parteikampf immer weiter zuspitzenden Neuwahlen nicht nur einer politischen, sondern auch jeder wirtschaftlichen Beruhigung und Festigung entgegenwirken muß. Es ist aber auch klar, daß jede Verfassungsänderung, die nicht von breitester Volksströmung getragen ist, noch schlimmere wirtschaftliche, politische und seelische Wirkungen auslösen wird.
            Wir erachten es deshalb für unsere Gewissenspflicht, Eure Exzellenz ehrerbietigst zu bitten, daß zur Erreichung des von uns allen unterstützten Zieles Eurer Exzellenz die Umgestaltung des Reichskabinetts in einer Weise erfolgen möge, die die größtmögliche Volkskraft hinter das Kabinett bringt.

            Wir bekennen uns frei von jeder engen parteipolitischen Einstellung. Wir erkennen in der nationalen Bewegung, die durch unser Volk geht, den verheißungsvollen Beginn einer Zeit, die durch Überwindung des Klassengegensatzes die unerläßliche Grundlage für einen Wiederaufstieg der deutschen Wirtschaft erst schafft. Wir wissen, daß dieser Aufstieg noch viele Opfer erfordert. Wir glauben, daß diese Opfer nur dann willig gebracht werden können, wenn die größte Gruppe dieser nationalen Bewegung führend an der Regierung beteiligt wird.
            Die Übertragung der verantwortlichen Leitung eines mit den besten sachlichen und persönlichen Kräften ausgestatteten Präsidialkabinetts an den Führer der größten nationalen Gruppe wird die Schlacken und Fehler, die jeder Massenbewegung notgedrungen anhaften, ausmerzen und Millionen Menschen, die heute abseits stehen, zu bejahender Kraft mitreißen.

            In vollem Vertrauen zu Eurer Exzellenz Weisheit und Eurer Exzellenz Gefühl der Volksverbundenheit begrüßen wir Euer Exzellenz
            mit größter Ehrerbietung

            Note the salutation:

            Your Excellency, Most honorable President of the Reich! Then the opening sentence:"Like Your Excellency, imbued with ardent love for the German people and fatherland, the undersigned have welcomed with hope the fundamental change that your Excellency has initiated in the conduct of state affairs".

            Further on: "We therefore consider it our duty of conscience to ask your Excellency with the utmost respect"

            And the complimentary close prior to the signatures: "With full confidence in Your Excellency Wisdom and your Excellency feeling of solidarity with the people, we greet Your Excellency.
            with the greatest respect"

            That letter is a polite and somewhat obsequious request. It is not “demanding” anything.


            Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
            Note that the other various petitions sent by various groups to Hindenburg and calling on him to appoint Hitler chancellor don't have separate listings or even their own specific name.
            What other letters/petitions to Hindenburg are you referencing?

            As for your links - can you not find any detailed academic texts? However, that you have cited Albert Scharenberg at the Rosa Luxemburg Foundation is interesting. You do realise it is a leftwing organisation and that Luxemburg helped found the KPD?

            The full text of Corporate Backers from Scharenberg reads:

            First and foremost, there was the support Hitler received from the business world. The strength of the support from this camp during the rise of the Nazi Party between 1928 and 1932 is a topic of discussion in the academic literature. What is nonetheless certain is that this pre-existing, substantial support increased sharply during the months immediately prior to the transfer of power. And this was no coincidence. For a long time, many industrialists had been expressing more reservations about the Nazi Party’s putative “socialism” than about its overt anti-Semitism. The situation came to a head in November 1932. On 6 November, the Nazi Party’s vote declined by more than four percent in the Reichstag elections, while the KPD was able to make significant gains. The fascist party seemed to have passed its electoral zenith, and was even on the verge of splitting in the weeks that followed. It was at this point that the mood among the business community swung decisively in Hitler’s favour. The fact that Hitler openly expounded his programme to business leaders in internal discussions, declaring his intention to rapidly remove Social Democrats, Communists, and Jews from all leadership positions in Germany, did not detract from their approval at all – on the contrary.

            A significant index of corporate support was the so-called Industrielleneingabe (Industrialists’ Petition) sent to Hindenburg on 19 November 1932 by industry representatives, bankers, and major agriculturalists—including the former (and later) president of the Reichsbank,Hjalmar Schacht, business magnate Fritz Thyssen, and Eberhard Graf von Kalkreuth, president of the Imperial Agricultural League. In this letter, they demanded Hitler’s appointment as chancellor, which they describe as “the propitious commencement of an era that, through the overcoming of class antagonisms, will create the vital basis for a resurgence of the German economy.”

            Even though Reinhard Neebe’s 1981 book, Großindustrie, Staat und NSDAP 1930–1933 rightly questions the decisive role that some Marxist historians attribute to this petition, it remains an exceedingly noteworthy document—which, moreover, marked only the beginning of the growing support Hitler came to enjoy in the corporate world. In the following weeks, ever more business representatives declared their support for Hitler, often with a mention of the KPD’s then best-ever election results (16.9 percent, corresponding to 100 representatives in the Reichstag). Representatives of capital also played a decisive role in mediating talks between Hitler and Franz von Papen in January 1933, which laid the ground for the formation of an NSDAP-DNVP coalition government.

            Once power was transferred to Hitler, there was no more stopping this trend. Despite—or perhaps because of—the fact Hitler’s speeches to industry representatives in February 1933 left no room for doubt concerning the dictatorial, expansionist nature of his programme, political and financial support for the Nazi Party went through the roof. We can say that by 30 January at the latest, a majority of the big industrialists were backing Hitler.


            By the way, have you actually consulted Reinhard Neebe’s Großindustrie, Staat und NSDAP 1930–1933: Paul Silverberg und der Reichsverband der Deutschen Industrie in der Krise der Weimarer Republik?

            Originally posted by rogue06;n1299283Maybe you should go back to your claiming that the the [I
            Reichstag Fire Decree[/I] (a.k.a., Decree of the Reich President for the Protection of People and State -- Verordnung des Reichspräsidenten zum Schutz von Volk und Staat) and the Enabling Act of 1933 (Law to Remedy the Distress of People and Reich -- Gesetz zur Behebung der Not von Volk und Reich) are "one and the same" thing.
            And I noted in my reply that you were correct.

            Now let us see if [for example] you are prepared to admit you were wrong about Spartacus being a Roman citizen because he was in the army. Or admit your allegation that Jewish prisoners built the Arch of Titus [and premised entirely on a Rome City Tour guide site https://www.romecitytour.it/attractions/arch-of-titus/] is risible. Or acknowledge that there is not a shred of attested historical evidence that supports your contentions that the disciple James ever went to India or that Christian communities in southern India can be are dated to the first century CE. Are you also prepared to concede that your allegation that the non Christian world copied the Christians for their mid-winter celebrations is nothing but ludicrous nonsense?

            Or would all that be too much of a climb-down for you?
            "It ain't necessarily so
            The things that you're liable
            To read in the Bible
            It ain't necessarily so
            ."

            Sportin' Life
            Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

            Comment


            • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
              Maybe they can be split to a separate thread
              Maybe she's Mickiel come back from the past - and I wanna get into that. GTG!!!
              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                Maybe she's Mickiel come back from the past - and I wanna get into that. GTG!!!







                1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                .
                ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
                Scripture before Tradition:
                but that won't prevent others from
                taking it upon themselves to deprive you
                of the right to call yourself Christian.

                ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

                Comment


                • Anti-Trumper Liz Cheney enters into evidence text messages from within Trump's administration showing that they were completely caught off guard by the January 6 peaceful protest, which would appear to refute the idea that they orchestrated the whole thing.

                  https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2...y-6-committee/
                  Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                  But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                  Than a fool in the eyes of God


                  From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                  Comment


                  • Has anyone ever explained or even asked, why Pelosi turned down an offer from Trump[1] offered to provide thousands of National Guard troops to help maintain order during January 6?




                    1. I'm not sure if it was Trump personally extending the offer, his Administration, or possibly both.

                    I'm always still in trouble again

                    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                    "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                    Comment


                    • I still want to know why Ray Epps, the red-hatted dude in a number of videos both the night before, and the day of, who directly, and explicitly said that they needed to go into the capitol and encouraged others multiple times to breach the capitol, has not been arrested, has not been charged, and has actually been removed from the FBI Capitol Violence Most Wanted List, despite being on camera literally inciting the incursion into the capitol.

                      Why is he no longer wanted, even though he did that and also entered the capitol?

                      Is it because he was, indeed, a fed, like a number of people in the crowd the night before started chanting at him when he said they needed to go into the Capitol? We already know an FBI informant was there, went into the Capitol, and was texting his handlers throughout everything. So how many other feds and informants were there? Because Epps sure looks like a fed, given what has happened. Is this another case like the 'kidnapping' plot of Whitmer, where half the people involved were feds trying to push everyone else into a kidnapping plot? I certainly can see that being a possibility. How many were feds/fed-informants and how many were peer pressured by said feds into a dumb decision?

                      http://www.capecharlesmirror.com/new...t-provocateur/

                      Also, what happened with the person who left pipe bombs in the Capitol Hill area? How has that person not been caught or identified yet? One of the FBI images released shows the person using a cellphone. They've used cellphone location data to identify a large number of the people who entered the capitol, from among a massive amount of people in the area. But I guess somehow can't identify the cellphone location data of a person alone at night with very few people around? Seems a bit sus.
                      Last edited by Gondwanaland; 12-16-2021, 11:13 AM.

                      Comment



                      • I'm always still in trouble again

                        "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                        "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                        "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                        Comment


                        • It's like chef Dirty Bob Mueller all over again.

                          "What's on the menu today, Bob?"
                          "The usual: nothing burgers."
                          "You make the best nothing burgers, Bob."
                          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                          Than a fool in the eyes of God


                          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                          Comment


                          • Jan. 6 committee caught misportraying another text message to Mark Meadows

                            Yet another example of a Jan. 6 committee member misportraying a text message sent to former White House chief of staff Mark Meadows emerged on Friday.

                            Rep. Jamie Raskin, a Maryland Democrat, incorrectly described on Tuesday a message to Meadows describing a strategy to overturn the results of the 2020 election as coming from a House lawmaker.

                            Anonymous sources told CNN that it was, as the news outlet put it, "an inadvertent error," and a "Raskin source said the congressman learned of the error this week from CNN and confirmed the mistake with staff."

                            Raskin wrote a letter to correct the Congressional Record, according to the report, which noted the Jan. 6 panel declined to comment on the actual author of the text.

                            Raskin cited the text message during debate on holding Meadows in contempt of Congress after he stopped cooperating last week with the panel's investigation into the Capitol riot.

                            "HERE's an AGRESSIVE STRATEGY: Why can t (sic) the states of GA NC PENN and other R controlled state houses declare this is BS (where conflicts and election not called that night) and just send their own electors to vote and have it go to the SCOTUS," the message said.

                            The CNN report claimed members of the Jan. 6 panel believe the author is Trump Energy Secretary Rick Perry, who was also the former Texas governor, but a spokesman for him denied the text was his.

                            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                              Jan. 6 committee caught misportraying another text message to Mark Meadows

                              Yet another example of a Jan. 6 committee member misportraying a text message sent to former White House chief of staff Mark Meadows emerged on Friday.

                              Rep. Jamie Raskin, a Maryland Democrat, incorrectly described on Tuesday a message to Meadows describing a strategy to overturn the results of the 2020 election as coming from a House lawmaker.

                              Anonymous sources told CNN that it was, as the news outlet put it, "an inadvertent error," and a "Raskin source said the congressman learned of the error this week from CNN and confirmed the mistake with staff."

                              Raskin wrote a letter to correct the Congressional Record, according to the report, which noted the Jan. 6 panel declined to comment on the actual author of the text.

                              Raskin cited the text message during debate on holding Meadows in contempt of Congress after he stopped cooperating last week with the panel's investigation into the Capitol riot.

                              "HERE's an AGRESSIVE STRATEGY: Why can t (sic) the states of GA NC PENN and other R controlled state houses declare this is BS (where conflicts and election not called that night) and just send their own electors to vote and have it go to the SCOTUS," the message said.

                              The CNN report claimed members of the Jan. 6 panel believe the author is Trump Energy Secretary Rick Perry, who was also the former Texas governor, but a spokesman for him denied the text was his.
                              Again? Dangblasted "inadvertent formatting errors" strike yet again.

                              But don't worry, star will be along shortly to tell everyone they're delusional.

                              I'm always still in trouble again

                              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                              "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                                Again? Dangblasted "inadvertent formatting errors" strike yet again.

                                But don't worry, star will be along shortly to tell everyone they're delusional.
                                They must not be taking their jobs and the investigation seriously. After all, if I was doing this investigation and considered it as serious as they claim it is, I would be double and triple checking each of these pieces of information that I'm presenting to make absolutely sure it said what I thought it did, and was written correctly.

                                Comment

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