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Massive Protests In France, Australia, against Covid passports and lockdowns

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

    What you dang ferreners seem incapable of understanding is that this "gridlock" is a key component of our system to keep one side or the other from making monumental changes to our country "just because they hold the majority".

    It's part of the "checks and balances".
    You would think this self-professed "expert" on all things America would at least bother getting at least a rudimentary understanding of how our government operates that every third grader[1] is supposed to have, instead of relying on what they learned from Hollyweird productions[2], TYT videos on YouTube and whatever Wormtongue whispers in his ear.

    The system of "checks and balances" was intentionally established and is a cornerstone of the entire system.





    1. well, at least a third grader (age 8 to 9) back when I was a young'un outside of Washington D.C. where you definitely learned about the government.

    2. I've been watching a NZ TV show called Wellington Paranormal -- perhaps the only person because the Neilson's rating is 0% (way too subtle humor for the network that is airing it) -- and am now an expert on all things Kiwi.

    Who knew there were so many ghosts, demons and what not running around just that one city. And that those in the surrounding countryside are so inbred that they look like clones -- both the men and women are identical).

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
    "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post

      "Temporary measures" . Oh you mean like "two weeks to flatten the curve"? That extended into two months and even more in many places? In Australia in particular many spots are on like their 6th or 7th lockdown. Nothing with government taking power from the people is ever temporary unless citizens fight back.
      We have and would - political parties here aren't as edgy about offending the electorate as they used to be, but they remain wary enough.
      1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
      .
      ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
      Scripture before Tradition:
      but that won't prevent others from
      taking it upon themselves to deprive you
      of the right to call yourself Christian.

      ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Starlight View Post
        In all your fearmongering about totalitarianism, you never seem to distinguish between temporary measures which will end within weeks or months, that (democratically elected) governments take as once off in response to some obviously unusual factor (e.g. a global pandemic), as compared to permanent gradual increases in totalitarianism which would actually be of real concern.

        Every temporary deployment of troops seems to be proof to you of total totalitarianism, and you never seem to pay any attention to the subsequent withdrawals of those troops from what were always going to be temporary assignments. This shows me that it's a mental health issue on your part (where you just look for any events that seem to confirm your existing obsessive belief in the totalitarianism of democratically elected governments) rather than an evidenced-based concern for tracking actual changes in overall totalitarianism (otherwise you'd equally see the withdrawal of those same troops as proof of decreased totalitarianism).

        And if you bothered to look at some actual historical data, you'd see that the entire Western world, and indeed the entire planet, has been getting way, WAY more free and less totalitarian over the last century or more. The percent of people who live in democratic governments rather than totalitarian ones has skyrocketed, and if the trends continue then in another hundred years there won't be any non-democratic countries. Being paranoid that the democratic West is getting more totalitarian is pretty amusing given it's getting more free.
        I read "temporary measures" and stopped reading at that point. To call pandemic mandates that once started as a mere weeks now beginning to approach it's second year "temporary" is so far removed from reality, there's nothing further at that point I can say in response to that type of delusion.

        As far as Australia goes, I could care less about it, so I'm not fearmongering. We have far more things to fearmonger about in my own country. I responded in a thread about Australia primarily because I'd knew you'd get triggered and start spouting off with your longwinded rant posts. In fact, anytime I bring up Australia and their totalitarian regime I do it with you in mind because it amuses me.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
          What you dang ferreners seem incapable of understanding is that this "gridlock" is a key component of our system to keep one side or the other from making monumental changes to our country "just because they hold the majority".

          It's part of the "checks and balances".
          As I said, "poorly designed political system", as the gridlock is built-in as part of the poorly conceived 'checks and balances'.
          "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
          "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
          "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post
            Nothing with government taking power from the people is ever temporary unless citizens fight back.
            An interesting statement of faith. What evidence is there that this actually has any truth whatsoever?

            The last 100 years has seen a general drift towards more freedoms worldwide. That would seem to show your statement to be false.
            "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
            "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
            "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
              You would think this self-professed "expert" on all things America would at least bother getting at least a rudimentary understanding of how our government operates that every third grader[1] is supposed to have, instead of relying on what they learned from Hollyweird productions[2], TYT videos on YouTube and whatever Wormtongue whispers in his ear.

              The system of "checks and balances" was intentionally established and is a cornerstone of the entire system.
              I've personally discussed the US system of 'checks and balances' multiple times in the past on this forum. Please don't falsely pretend I know nothing about it

              What is up with you and this 'gotcha' posting that you keep doing constantly falsely claiming I know nothing about US politics? You've been wrong every single time with it. There hasn't been a single instance of you actually catching me out for not knowing something, but you do it over and over again. Is there something mentally wrong with you?
              "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
              "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
              "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                An interesting statement of faith. What evidence is there that this actually has any truth whatsoever?

                The last 100 years has seen a general drift towards more freedoms worldwide. That would seem to show your statement to be false.
                TSA.
                Domestic spying.
                Disarmament of the people of Australia.
                The steady destruction of speech freedoms in the UK to the point that the latest government revamp of the Official Secrets Act that is being pushed, could not only allow government to gag reporting (like they do now) but also arrest journalists for exposing things embarassing to the government and its officials.
                Where have you been sleeping?

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post

                  TSA.
                  Domestic spying.
                  Disarmament of the people of Australia.
                  The steady destruction of speech freedoms in the UK to the point that the latest government revamp of the Official Secrets Act that is being pushed, could not only allow government to gag reporting (like they do now) but also arrest journalists for exposing things embarassing to the government and its officials.
                  Where have you been sleeping?
                  SL gets his talking points from liberal social scientists who say we're living in a social freedom utopia because we're not seeing folks dragged out in the streets and executed or starved to death by the millions in submission to their authority like totalitarian regimes of the past. They make apples to oranges comparisons and say: "See, we're all free."

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post
                    TSA.
                    Domestic spying.
                    Disarmament of the people of Australia.
                    The steady destruction of speech freedoms in the UK to the point that the latest government revamp of the Official Secrets Act that is being pushed, could not only allow government to gag reporting (like they do now) but also arrest journalists for exposing things embarassing to the government and its officials.
                    Where have you been sleeping?
                    I don't interpret these the way you do, e.g. the people of Australia still own guns, they are not 'disarmed'.

                    Furthermore you are seizing on instances of (alleged) freedom reductions and ignoring instances of increases in freedoms. e.g. legalizations of marijuana or other drugs, legalizations of gay sex and marriage, legalizations of prostitution, legalizations of euthanasia. You cannot reasonably say that the losses of freedom are greater than the gains in freedom if you are only counting the losses and never the gains.

                    But your original statement of faith was "Nothing with government taking power from the people is ever temporary unless citizens fight back", which I don't see how your tiny number of cited instances can be construed as evidence for, as they have neither anything to do with things being temporary nor with citizens fighting back.
                    "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                    "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                    "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by seanD View Post
                      SL gets his talking points from liberal social scientists who say we're living in a social freedom utopia because we're not seeing folks dragged out in the streets and executed or starved to death by the millions in submission to their authority like totalitarian regimes of the past.
                      I dunno about liberal social scientists... my country gets rated the freest in the world by libertarian think tanks. So it's apparently the libertarians who think I might well know something about freedom.

                      I sure do know that the lack of the bolded part happening indicates we are substantially better than those totalitarian regimes. Reading your posts it seems like in your mind that modern Western democracy is somehow basically doing the bolded part.

                      Over the last hundred to two hundred years much of the world has moved from doing the bolded part to being free democracies. In most countries this hasn't occurred due to any action by the people to violently overthrow the government or defending themselves against it, it's occurred due to successive governments gradually giving more and more rights to the people / recognizing more and more rights. Somehow, despite this, you're convinced we're all losing freedom.
                      "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                      "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                      "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                        As I said, "poorly designed political system", as the gridlock is built-in as part of the poorly conceived 'checks and balances'.
                        Nope - very well designed, in that it keeps a small majority from steamrolling the other side. Major decisions need to be made on a bipartisan basis.

                        We are, after all, a representative republic, not a pure democracy. You ignorance on this matter is noted.
                        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                          I dunno about liberal social scientists... my country gets rated the freest in the world by libertarian think tanks. So it's apparently the libertarians who think I might well know something about freedom.

                          I sure do know that the lack of the bolded part happening indicates we are substantially better than those totalitarian regimes. Reading your posts it seems like in your mind that modern Western democracy is somehow basically doing the bolded part.

                          Over the last hundred to two hundred years much of the world has moved from doing the bolded part to being free democracies. In most countries this hasn't occurred due to any action by the people to violently overthrow the government or defending themselves against it, it's occurred due to successive governments gradually giving more and more rights to the people / recognizing more and more rights. Somehow, despite this, you're convinced we're all losing freedom.
                          Whenever you go on your "in the last hundred years" spiel I know where that's coming from because I've heard that tripe myself. Yes, there are trade-offs. In some sense we're far better off than we were then, and in some sense we're far worse off. It's purely subjective, even though those propagating this tripe pretend like they're using data objectively to try and make it look legit. I've heard it all before.

                          My concern is not that I believe we're at that point yet; my concern is not getting to that point via progressive steps such as Gond pointed out, and then pro-statist leftists like you gaslighting us as if we're the crazy ones because we're not quite there yet as we continue progressive steps towards that point of getting there.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                            I've personally discussed the US system of 'checks and balances' multiple times in the past on this forum. Please don't falsely pretend I know nothing about it
                            "Personally discussing something multiple times" is not proof that you know anything of substance about it.

                            What is up with you and this 'gotcha' posting that you keep doing constantly falsely claiming I know nothing about US politics? You've been wrong every single time with it. There hasn't been a single instance of you actually catching me out for not knowing something, but you do it over and over again. Is there something mentally wrong with you?
                            Your nutty notion that our system of checks and balances brings about "gridlock", as though that's a bad thing. It is purposely designed to keep big swings in direction due to one party being in power by the slimmest majority.

                            The incentive is for both sides (or all sides) to work together to solve the problems they can solve in a bipartisan fashion.
                            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by seanD View Post
                              Whenever you go on your "in the last hundred years" spiel I know where that's coming from because I've heard that tripe myself.
                              But you don't seem to have paid attention to it. If you actually look at advances in civil rights and freedoms in the Western world in the last couple of centuries, they came from governments voluntarily, never from the armed populace.

                              The 1948 UN Declaration of Human Rights is probably the single biggest human rights treaty in human history. It wasn't brought to us by an armed populace. It was by governments around the world. Another big UN one was the 1989 UN Convention on the Rights of the Child. Again, governments working together to enshrine and promote rights.

                              In the US in the 20th century arguably the biggest civil rights improvements were the Civil Rights act and Voting rights acts, both brought to you voluntarily by the federal government in response to a general social view that they should be passed and due to a variety of peaceful protests, and not at all due to an armed populace. Going back further, the civil war could arguably be interpreted as the federal government wanting to stop slavery, and to the extent an armed populace was involved it was in serious danger of blocking the federal government's push to expand human rights in this regard.

                              Canada, and my own country, variously wrote lengthy civil rights protections in the 80s and 90s, not because of any armed populace, but because the government wanted to expand civil rights and formalize the protections of them.

                              Governments all around the Western world expanded voting rights to women, and also to native peoples, not because of an armed citizenry demanding it, but because the governments themselves voluntarily decided to do so.

                              As far as I can trace it, every single civil rights expansion in the Western world in the last 200 years has come about through governments voluntarily expanding rights, and never through an armed citizenry. I'm not saying that the people in those governments were purely altruistic, or didn't act out of selfish reasons (e.g. wanting to do something popular to get elected again and retain power), but each time the expansion and enshrinement of civil rights was done by the government and was not done due to any armed citizenry threatening them with physical force.

                              So you come across to me as delusional because an armed citizenry has never been the catalyst for positive change in the modern Western world, and such changes seem to have always come from the governments voluntarily making positive changes. You are promoting a method of change that has never worked, and denying the one that has always worked.
                              "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                              "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                              "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Paris still fighting covid cult totalitarianism. I didn't think the French had it in them either.

                                Protesters Rage In Paris Against "Health Passports

                                Tens of thousands of people across several countries, including France, the UK, and Israel, have demonstrated against new anti-COVID restrictions, with the majority of the protests held in the Paris metropolitan area.

                                According to Reuters, in Paris and other French cities, more than 200,000 protesters flooded streets on Saturday, outraged about COVID-19 health passes. The passports were introduced as Europe is in the midst of the fourth wave of virus infections.

                                President Emmanuel Macron's latest measures have resulted in the third week of protests. The new passports are for fully vaccinated people, those who have natural immunity, and or test negative for the virus within 72 hours. The passes must be shown before entering public transportation, bars, restaurants, and other public venues.

                                The health passes are directed at forcing those who are not vaccinated to get immunized.

                                However, when the government treads on freedom and forces a segment of the population to take an experimental vaccine, there will be blowback, especially when the first round of vaccinations were supposed to liberate folks and return life to normal.

                                Now there's more restrictions, less freedom, and the government wants to continue feeding people an experimental drug. People are beginning to turn on the government:
                                Try bringing that to the US.

                                Comment

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