Announcement

Collapse

Civics 101 Guidelines

Want to argue about politics? Healthcare reform? Taxes? Governments? You've come to the right place!

Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
See more
See less

Should we get vaccinated against COVID-19?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31
    Originally posted by RumTumTugger View Post
    Whether you get the vaccine or not needs to be between you and your doctor; not you and the Government. No politician not even Fauci, who has never seen a patient,knows your medical history better then your doctor and you.
    This brings up medical privacy laws as well.

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
    "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

    Comment


    • #32
      White House official liar Jen Psaki refuses to say how many members of the White House staff are fully vaccinated, and how many have contracted the China flu after being vaccinated.

      "Why do you need that information?"

      Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
      But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
      Than a fool in the eyes of God


      From "Fools Gold" by Petra

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
        White House official liar Jen Psaki refuses to say how many members of the White House staff are fully vaccinated, and how many have contracted the China flu after being vaccinated.

        "Why do you need that information?"

        And to me, this is a strong reason to be skeptical of the poke. The only reason to withhold the info -- and AFAIK, no one asked for a list of *names* -- is that they know it's a sizable number, probably at least as great percentage-wise as the vax-hesitant in the overall population.

        If they can't convince their own lackeys to submit, why should we free people?
        Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

        Beige Federalist.

        Nationalist Christian.

        "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

        Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

        Proud member of the this space left blank community.

        Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.

        Justice for Ashli Babbitt!

        Justice for Matthew Perna!

        Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
          White House official liar Jen Psaki refuses to say how many members of the White House staff are fully vaccinated, and how many have contracted the China flu after being vaccinated.
          Psaki was an awful choice for Press Secretary. She lied heaps under Obama which should have ruled her out of consideration by Biden. It would have been refreshing after the Trump administration to bring some honesty and transparency back to the press secretary position.
          "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
          "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
          "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post
            At this point, because of the fascist approach to demanding submission to the jab, I believe that standing up for individual freedom is a legitimate reason to refuse in and of itself.
            So you'd potentially kill yourself and/or your loved ones... because there are people out there who want to save their lives?

            Seems akin to having an abortion just because someone else in the world is pro-life and you're doing it to spite them.
            "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
            "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
            "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Starlight View Post
              So you'd potentially kill yourself and/or your loved ones... because there are people out there who want to save their lives?
              Tell me, were you and people like you going into such rabid histrionics before 2020 toward people when people didn't get the flu vaccine? Or is this just something new that y'all have developed as part of your Branch Covidian religion?

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Dimbulb View Post
                Psaki was an awful choice for Press Secretary. She lied heaps under Obama which should have ruled her out of consideration by Biden.
                Being a liar is a perquisite for working in a Democrat administration.
                Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                Than a fool in the eyes of God


                From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post
                  Tell me, were you and people like you going into such rabid histrionics before 2020 toward people when people didn't get the flu vaccine?
                  I personally have always gotten the flu vaccine, but I wasn't actually aware until last year that the flu was a significant cause of death among elderly people. Now that I know that, I definitely think more people getting the flu vaccine is important.

                  Although I would note that for three reasons it is less important than the Covid vaccine:
                  1. Covid's death rate is higher, 3x-10x that of the flu according to a brief google.
                  2. I believe the flu vaccine has less efficacy, as numerous different strains of the flu exist, and the vaccine makers each year try to guess in advance which flu strains might be big in the coming season and vaccinate against those particular ones, but if they guess wrong the flu vaccine can be relatively ineffective.
                  3. The flu is less contagious than covid, meaning only around 25%-30% of the population needs immunity to the flu / to have had a working vaccine against it, in order to achieve 'herd immunity', while with the delta variant of Covid around 85% of the population needs immunity in order to achieve herd immunity. So effort needs to be made to get a higher number vaccinated against it.

                  There was, of course, a time 100 years ago when the flu pandemic swept the globe (and some lesser ones since, though they were still terrible). Hopefully now with flu vaccines that's vastly less likely to happen again.

                  I do encourage the vaccine skeptics to go have a read about Smallpox, a disease that was more infectious than covid and used to kill 30% of infected people and permanently disfigure many of the survivors. Thankfully through worldwide vaccination programs it was eradicated.
                  Last edited by Starlight; 07-25-2021, 09:37 PM.
                  "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                  "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                  "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                    Being a liar is a perquisite for working in a Democrat administration.
                    Well it does seem standard in US politics these days. But it's one thing for Republicans to lie daily, but Democrats are supposed to be about being better than that.
                    "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                    "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                    "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                      Well it does seem standard in US politics these days. But it's one thing for Republicans to lie daily, but Democrats are supposed to be about being better than that.
                      Quite, this is really the point. We expect the republicans to be awful, and their supporters to defend them and minimise their awfulness regardless. Democrats are meant to be better. And they are, clearly. But that's such a low bar it doesn't really take any effort, I'd expect them to be order of magnitude better, which unfortunately isn't the case.

                      Part of the explanation, I think, is the way elections and politics are held in the US - specifically, the moneyed interests bankrolling both parties, or wealth surpemists as I heard them called once.
                      Last edited by EvoUK; 07-26-2021, 03:46 AM.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        President Trump was far more transparent than any other US president in recent memory. He regularly invited the media to his cabinet meetings, he wasn't afraid to have a sit-down interview with an "unfriendly" network, and he held frequent impromptu press conferences, sometimes multiple times a day as he was going to and from various functions where he substantively answered every question put to him. I know liberals have latched onto the narrative that President Trump was a habitual liar, but I wonder, if that's true, then why did the media feel compelled to tell so many lies about him?

                        Contrast that with Joe who has never held an impromptu press conference and has infrequent sit-down interviews exclusively with "friendlies" who ask him a series of scripted softball questions that he still can't manage to answer coherently. And even then, Joe says a lot of things that simply aren't true, but it's hard to know if he's being intentionally deceptive, or if he's simply confused. And we're supposed to be believe that more people voted for this buffoon than voted for Barack Obama. Right.
                        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                        Than a fool in the eyes of God


                        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                          White House official liar Jen Psaki refuses to say how many members of the White House staff are fully vaccinated, and how many have contracted the China flu after being vaccinated.

                          "Why do you need that information?"

                          IIRC, old Joe or one of his keepers declared that this Administration would be transparent about who in the White House got the Chicom coronavirus, but now it's just senior staff members that will be mentioned. Last I heard it's not just senior staff members who are contagious if they have it. I wonder what brought on the shift.

                          I'm always still in trouble again

                          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                          "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                            President Trump was far more transparent than any other US president in recent memory. He regularly invited the media to his cabinet meetings, he wasn't afraid to have a sit-down interview with an "unfriendly" network, and he held frequent impromptu press conferences, sometimes multiple times a day as he was going to and from various functions where he substantively answered every question put to him. I know liberals have latched onto the narrative that President Trump was a habitual liar, but I wonder, if that's true, then why did the media feel compelled to tell so many lies about him?

                            Contrast that with Joe who has never held an impromptu press conference and has infrequent sit-down interviews exclusively with "friendlies" who ask him a series of scripted softball questions that he still can't manage to answer coherently. And even then, Joe says a lot of things that simply aren't true, but it's hard to know if he's being intentionally deceptive, or if he's simply confused. And we're supposed to be believe that more people voted for this buffoon than voted for Barack Obama. Right.
                            One of the jokes circulating on the internet is about how twitter and Facebook can't be biased against conservatives because they are obviously blocking all of the messages of support for old Joe. But as you said, supposedly more people supported him than the Obamessiah.

                            I'm always still in trouble again

                            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                            "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              More talk of booster shots:

                              Source: Analysis: Necessary or Not, Covid Booster Shots Are Probably on the Horizon



                              The drugmaker Pfizer recently announced that vaccinated people are likely to need a booster shot to be effectively protected against new variants of covid-19 and that the company would apply for Food and Drug Administration emergency use authorization for the shot. Top government health officials immediately and emphatically announced that the booster isn’t needed right now — and held firm to that position even after Pfizer’s top scientist made his case and shared preliminary data with them last week.

                              This has led to confusion. Should the nearly 60% of adult Americans who have been fully vaccinated seek out a booster or not? Is the protection that has allowed them to see loved ones and go out to dinner fading?

                              Ultimately, the question of whether a booster is needed is unlikely to determine the FDA’s decision. If recent history is predictive, booster shots will be here before long. That’s because of the outdated, 60-year-old basic standard the FDA uses to authorize medicines for sale: Is a new drug “safe and effective”?

                              The FDA, using that standard, will very likely have to authorize Pfizer’s booster for emergency use, as it did the company’s prior covid shot. The booster is likely to be safe — hundreds of millions have taken the earlier shots — and Pfizer reported that it dramatically increases a vaccinated person’s antibodies against SARS-CoV-2. From that perspective, it may also be considered very effective.

                              But does that kind of efficacy matter? Is a higher level of antibodies needed to protect vaccinated Americans? Though antibody levels may wane some over time, the current vaccines deliver perfectly good immunity so far.

                              What if a booster is safe and effective in one sense but simply not needed — at least for now?

                              Reliance on the simple “safe and effective” standard — which certainly sounds reasonable — is a relic of a time when there were far fewer and simpler medicines available to treat diseases and before pharmaceutical manufacturing became one of the world’s biggest businesses.

                              The FDA’s 1938 landmark legislation focused primarily on safety after more than 100 Americans died from a raspberry-flavored liquid form of an early antibiotic because one of its ingredients was used as antifreeze. The 1962 Kefauver-Harris Amendments to the Federal Food, Drug and Cosmetic Act set out more specific requirements for drug approval: Companies must scientifically prove a drug’s effectiveness through “adequate and well-controlled studies.”

                              In today’s pharmaceutical universe, a simple “safe and effective” determination is not always an adequate bar, and it can be manipulated to sell drugs of questionable value. There’s also big money involved: Pfizer is already projecting $26 billion in covid revenue this year.

                              The United States’ continued use of this standard to let drugs into the market has led to the approval of expensive, not necessarily very effective drugs. In 2014, for example, the FDA approved a toenail fungus drug that can cost up to $1,500 a month and that studies showed cured fewer than 10% of patients after a year of treatment. That’s more effective than doing nothing but less effective and more costly than a number of other treatments for this bothersome malady.

                              It has also led to a plethora of high-priced drugs to treat diseases like cancers, multiple sclerosis and Type 2 diabetes that are all more effective than a placebo but have often not been tested very much against one another to determine which are most effective.

                              In today’s complex world, clarification is needed to determine just what kind of effectiveness the FDA should demand. And should that be the job of the FDA alone?

                              For example, should drugmakers prove a drug is significantly more effective than products already on the market? Or demonstrate cost-effectiveness — the health value of a product relative to its price — a metric used by Britain’s health system? And in which cases is effectiveness against a surrogate marker — like an antibody level — a good enough stand-in for whether a drug will have a significant impact on a patient’s health?

                              In most industrialized countries, broad access to the national market is a two-step process, said Aaron Kesselheim, a professor of medicine at Harvard Medical School who studies drug development, marketing and law and recently served on an FDA advisory committee. The first part certifies that a drug is sufficiently safe and effective. That is immediately followed by an independent health technology assessment to see where it fits in the treatment armamentarium, including, in some countries, whether it is useful enough to be sold at all at the stated price. But there’s no such automatic process in the U.S.

                              When Pfizer applies for authorization, the FDA may well clear a booster for the U.S. market. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, likely with advice from National Institutes of Health experts, will then have to decide whether to recommend it and for whom. This judgment call usually determines whether insurers will cover it. Pfizer is likely to profit handsomely from a government authorization, and the company will gain some revenue even if only the worried well, who can pay out-of-pocket, decide to get the shot.

                              To make any recommendation on a booster, government experts say they need more data. They could, for example, as Dr. Anthony Fauci has suggested, eventually green-light the additional vaccine shot only for a small group of patients at high risk for a deadly infection, such as the very old or transplant recipients who take immunosuppressant drugs, as some other countries have done.

                              But until the United States refines the FDA’s “safe and effective” standard or adds a second layer of vetting, when new products hit the market and manufacturers promote them, Americans will be left to decipher whose version of effective and necessary matters to them.



                              Source

                              © Copyright Original Source




                              I'm always still in trouble again

                              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                              "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by RumTumTugger View Post
                                ... Fauci, who has never seen a patient, ....
                                That's a ridiculous comment. It's impossible to qualify as a doctor without seeing patients.

                                A quick look at Fausci's history shows he, like most doctors, started his career with a hospital residency.
                                Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

                                MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
                                MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

                                seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

                                Comment

                                Related Threads

                                Collapse

                                Topics Statistics Last Post
                                Started by little_monkey, Yesterday, 04:19 PM
                                16 responses
                                151 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post One Bad Pig  
                                Started by whag, 03-26-2024, 04:38 PM
                                53 responses
                                399 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Mountain Man  
                                Started by rogue06, 03-26-2024, 11:45 AM
                                25 responses
                                114 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post rogue06
                                by rogue06
                                 
                                Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 03-26-2024, 09:21 AM
                                33 responses
                                198 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Roy
                                by Roy
                                 
                                Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 03-26-2024, 08:34 AM
                                84 responses
                                372 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post JimL
                                by JimL
                                 
                                Working...
                                X