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Should we get vaccinated against COVID-19?

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  • Should we get vaccinated against COVID-19?

    This thread is to discuss reasons for and against getting vaccinated, and how they should factor into an individual’s decision to get vaccinated or not.

    Outline:

    Reasons for:-

    (1) To protect oneself against getting seriously ill if infected,

    (2) To protect others, by (2.1) reducing viral load if infected and thus reducing how infectious you are to other people; (2.2) reducing strain on health services and thus make better treatment available for those that really need it.

    (3) To reduce the chances of variants of the virus arising


    Reasons against:-

    (A) Risk of side effects / adverse reaction to the vaccine

    (B) Other health conditions that make getting vaccinated more risky than for other people


    It seems to me that most people’s decision should be based on a risk-benefit calculation, comparing (1-3) against (A-C).

    For example, we know that younger people are less at risk of serious illness from COVID, and also they have a longer lifetime ahead of them to live with any adverse effects. So their calculation is likely to lean towards the not getting vaccinated end. And, likewise, we know that older people are much more likely to have a serious illness if infected, and (being older) are going to be affected for a shorter time if they have adverse effects from the vaccine. So it seems reasonable that such people should get vaccinated.


    One thing that does strike me, is that there seems to be a lot of weight being put on (2) as a reason to get vaccinated – ‘to protect other people’. Apart from questions about how much being vaccinated actually does protect other people, it seems to me that this is not reasoning that we apply equally in other areas of life.

    There are many behaviours that people do, and many that they refuse to do, that come under the heading of ‘protecting/ harming others’.

    For example, we allow people to drink alcohol, and to become alcoholic, even though this means a high cost to society in terms of healthcare for people who have damaged their bodies by abusing alcohol; family violence; general violence; drunk driving and the deaths that causes, and so on. Yet we don’t apply the degree of pressure against this harmful behavior that we are applying towards getting people to be vaccinated against COVID. We don’t accept that a hospital (say) has the right to refuse a job to a trainee doctor because he drinks alcohol, yet we seem OK with that happening if he decides not to get vaccinated.

    We can make similar parallels with other behaviours. Obesity through overeating and lack of exercise is another one. (I’m not talking about people who have weight problems due to metabolic disorders, medication for other conditions, etc) People who voluntarily choose to become obese, thus damaging their own health, and requiring the use of valuable healthcare facilities etc to care for them. Not to mention other accommodations and expenses such as larger furniture in public places etc. We don’t seem to regard this behavior as one that should be severely discouraged, say by introducing a ‘BMI passport’, where people who have an unhealthy BMI are restricted from access to some public spaces and services.

    This seems therefore to weaken the case for vaccination, since we are over-weighting (2) compared to many other damaging behaviours we do accept, or at least tolerate, in society.


    Thoughts?

    ...>>> Witty remark or snarky quote of another poster goes here <<<...

  • #2
    Ox to the defense in 3...2...


    Only issue I take is when it's compulsory, and this especially includes the vaccine passports, even if government can finagle a legal way of doing it using corporate proxies..
    "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

    Comment


    • #3
      Should we? Yes.

      Should people be required to? A very different question.

      I'm always still in trouble again

      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

      Comment


      • #4
        I trust my doctor far more than I trust politicians and leftists who are driving this. My doctor has advised me to wait. I will until she says otherwise.
        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
          I trust my doctor far more than I trust politicians and leftists who are driving this. My doctor has advised me to wait. I will until she says otherwise.
          FWIU, most doctors are telling their patients who already had the Chicom coronavirus to wait 6 months or so before getting a vaccination. So you are hardly the only one being told by their doctor to wait.

          I'm always still in trouble again

          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
          "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
            Should we? Yes.

            Should people be required to? A very different question.
            My answers would be:

            Depends (I don't think kids should be vaccinated)

            and

            No (but I may have little choice)
            ...>>> Witty remark or snarky quote of another poster goes here <<<...

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
              FWIU, most doctors are telling their patients who already had the Chicom coronavirus to wait 6 months or so before getting a vaccination. So you are hardly the only one being told by their doctor to wait.
              Absolutely - and more than a few doctors in town are saying the same thing -- there's just too much we do not know.
              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                Absolutely - and more than a few doctors in town are saying the same thing -- there's just too much we do not know.
                Scientism leftists will say the risk is worth it.
                "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

                Comment


                • #9
                  I took it and my wife took it. Having gone through numerous vaccines over the years (including smallpox and anthrax <thanks navy>) I just went ahead and got it.

                  My daughter took it. Could she have likely done without it? Probably, but then again, we got her started before the heart enlargement risk at that age was published.

                  My son isn't old enough. Once approval reaches his age range, we'll probably get it for him. Right now the primary benefit will just be quality of life, but my main goal would be to have us all with some level of protection in the situation of another variant really hitting indiana. (Plus, he has plenty of grandparents aunts and uncles that we wouldn't want him getting sick.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                    FWIU, most doctors are telling their patients who already had the Chicom coronavirus to wait 6 months or so before getting a vaccination. So you are hardly the only one being told by their doctor to wait.
                    My doctor says that since I had the virus, I do not need the vaccine. He didn't give me a time frame.
                    That's what
                    - She

                    Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                    - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                    I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                    Stephen R. Donaldson

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by seanD View Post
                      ...even if government can finagle a legal way of doing it using corporate proxies..
                      That's what liberals are pushing for. They want to make getting the vaccine the "easy" choice by having employers make life hell for anybody who isn't vaccinated. The latest was a talking head on CNN suggesting that employers should require unvaxxed employees come in an hour early and be tested daily at the employees expense or be fired.

                      My question to the COVID cult is what makes them think this is going to stop at the experimental China flu vaccines? Once these kinds of systems are in place, what's to stop the government from coercing us into being injected with whatever dangerous junk it wants, especially when it's unethical frauds like Herr Fauci making the call?
                      Last edited by Mountain Man; 07-23-2021, 11:21 AM.
                      Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                      But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                      Than a fool in the eyes of God


                      From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                        That's what liberals are pushing for. They want to make getting the vaccine the "easy" choice by having employers make life hell for anybody who isn't vaccinated. The latest was a talking head on CNN suggesting that employers should require unvaxxed employees come in an hour early and be tested daily at the employees expense or be fired.

                        My question to the COVID cult is what makes them think this is going to stop at the experimental China flu vaccines? Once these kinds of systems are in place, what's to stop the government from coercing us into being injected with whatever dangerous junk it wants, especially when it's unethical frauds like Herr Fauci making the call?
                        I was thinking more in line of how they're using social media networks to curb our first amendment. In the same way, they're going to use corporations to target consumers. If you work at a place that requires you to get the jab, there's nothing you can really do, but you at least have the option of quitting. But what do you do if you can't buy food, or gas, or can't travel? Then you have no choice.
                        "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Whether you get the vaccine or not needs to be between you and your doctor; not you and the Government. No politician not even Fauci, who has never seen a patient,knows your medical history better then your doctor and you.
                          Last edited by RumTumTugger; 07-23-2021, 11:43 AM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by RumTumTugger View Post
                            Whether you get the vaccine or not needs to be between you and your doctor; not you and the Government. No politician not even Fauci, who has never seen a patient,knows your medical history better then your doctor and you.
                            I would take it a step further: it's nobody's business but your own.
                            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                            Than a fool in the eyes of God


                            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by seanD View Post

                              I was thinking more in line of how they're using social media networks to curb our first amendment. In the same way, they're going to use corporations to target consumers. If you work at a place that requires you to get the jab, there's nothing you can really do, but you at least have the option of quitting. But what do you do if you can't buy food, or gas, or can't travel? Then you have no choice.
                              Yes, that's what I'm talking about. And once that's in place, what's to stop the government from arbitrarily "recommending" whatever medication it wants knowing that private organizations will threaten your freedom if you don't comply? It may start with a soft mandate on the China flu vaccine, but I guarantee it won't end there.
                              Last edited by Mountain Man; 07-23-2021, 12:38 PM.
                              Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                              But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                              Than a fool in the eyes of God


                              From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                              Comment

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