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Minneapolis - Measure To Put Replacing Police On November Ballot

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

    Those would be clear examples of
    A) a potential domestic violence incident
    2) a potential medical/mental crisis

    so, yeah.
    Yeah, it's the grayer or murkier calls that will be of the most concern.

    And then there is that nasty law of unintended consequences...

    You will start getting family members or other loved ones calling in when someone is having a psychotic episode and is potentially very dangerous, but doesn't want the police involved for whatever reason(s), so they describe the problem in a way that keeps them uninvolved and places some paramedic or mental health worker placed in a lethal situation.

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
    "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
      Yeah, it's the grayer or murkier calls that will be of the most concern.

      And then there is that nasty law of unintended consequences...

      You will start getting family members or other loved ones calling in when someone is having a psychotic episode and is potentially very dangerous, but doesn't want the police involved for whatever reason(s), so they describe the problem in a way that keeps them uninvolved and places some paramedic or mental health worker placed in a lethal situation.
      Which goes back to what I said earlier: common sense says you always send the person who is best prepared to deal with a worst case scenario. Sending out a social worker is the equivalent of getting a medical call and sending out someone with a first aid kit instead of an EMT team in a fully stocked ambulance.
      Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
      But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
      Than a fool in the eyes of God


      From "Fools Gold" by Petra

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
        Minneapolis City Council Committee OK’s Measure To Put Replacing MPD On November Ballot

        This could prove to be very interesting.

        Backing away from "defunding the police" and going with "replacing the police".


        MINNEAPOLIS (WCCO) — The Minneapolis City Council is one step closer to getting a measure on the November ballot that would do away with the Minneapolis Police Department. The ballot measure would replace police with a Public Safety Department.

        The measure is so complex and so much is at stake that, for the first time, the council committee also approved a lengthy explanatory note that will also be on the ballot.
        Interesting. There's not enough detail for me to really understand fully what they are proposing. Their 'explanation' they decided to put on the ballot gives some detail, including the fact that this would/could include peace officers in this new department. There's just not enough specifics. I kind of hope it actually passes and we get to see if it is effective or not.

        One thing I know for sure, most police forces in the US need major if not complete overhauls. In training, in there being independent oversight, etc.. Especially in union-shop forces. And they need it bad. The current system is not working. The current training is not working. And honestly every cop should be trained if not have a degree in working with people with mental health issues, drug issues, etc.. Training should be way longer than it is in most police forces as well. The militarization of police needs to end.

        I actually like localities like this trying new things, new approaches to issues. Let's see how it pans out.

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post

          Interesting. There's not enough detail for me to really understand fully what they are proposing. Their 'explanation' they decided to put on the ballot gives some detail, including the fact that this would/could include peace officers in this new department. There's just not enough specifics. I kind of hope it actually passes and we get to see if it is effective or not.

          One thing I know for sure, most police forces in the US need major if not complete overhauls. In training, in there being independent oversight, etc.. Especially in union-shop forces. And they need it bad. The current system is not working. The current training is not working. And honestly every cop should be trained if not have a degree in working with people with mental health issues, drug issues, etc.. Training should be way longer than it is in most police forces as well. The militarization of police needs to end.

          I actually like localities like this trying new things, new approaches to issues. Let's see how it pans out.
          In that most city police forces are sorely understaffed I think we are already getting a pretty accurate preview of what it's like with defunded police departments

          I'm always still in trouble again

          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
          "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
            In that most city police forces are sorely understaffed I think we are already getting a pretty accurate preview of what it's like with defunded police departments
            I'm not talking about defunding police departments. Rather different ways of policing or training peace officers, etc. Even this bill doesn't appear to defund the police department, but rather replace it with something else, which includes peace officers. For example here in Denver we've had a 6 month test program of a system where mental health professionals are sent to specific calls, particularly welfare check calls, some trespassing calls invlolving people that show indications of drug use or mental illness, and it has shown signs of success. Of note, IIRC not a single one of the calls they went to ended up requiring the police to then be sent in.
            Last edited by Gondwanaland; 07-26-2021, 08:43 PM.

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
              Yeah, it's the grayer or murkier calls that will be of the most concern.

              And then there is that nasty law of unintended consequences...

              You will start getting family members or other loved ones calling in when someone is having a psychotic episode and is potentially very dangerous, but doesn't want the police involved for whatever reason(s), so they describe the problem in a way that keeps them uninvolved and places some paramedic or mental health worker placed in a lethal situation.
              EGGzackly --- far better to have the armed police arrive and not be needed - they can defer to clinical professionals who will arrive when they can, but they can also "stand by" in the background, or "down the block" just in case it turns ugly.

              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

              Comment


              • #52
                In 25 major U.S. cities across the country, officials have already cut – or have proposed cutting — funds from police budgets.

                However, in as many as 20 of those same cities, mayors and other city officials enjoy the personal protection of a dedicated police security detail. In many cities, this security costs taxpayers millions of dollars per year.

                We found that the defunding of police – coupled with taxpayer dollars spent on police security details protecting public officials– only occurred in cities run by Democratic mayors.

                In mid-May, our auditors at OpenTheBooks.com filed Freedom of Information Act requests with these 25 cities, asking which city officials have police details, how many officers are assigned, and how much money it costs.

                https://www.forbes.com/sites/adamand...h=1885738ad86b
                Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                Than a fool in the eyes of God


                From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                  In 25 major U.S. cities across the country, officials have already cut – or have proposed cutting — funds from police budgets.

                  However, in as many as 20 of those same cities, mayors and other city officials enjoy the personal protection of a dedicated police security detail. In many cities, this security costs taxpayers millions of dollars per year.

                  We found that the defunding of police – coupled with taxpayer dollars spent on police security details protecting public officials– only occurred in cities run by Democratic mayors.

                  In mid-May, our auditors at OpenTheBooks.com filed Freedom of Information Act requests with these 25 cities, asking which city officials have police details, how many officers are assigned, and how much money it costs.

                  https://www.forbes.com/sites/adamand...h=1885738ad86b
                  We found that the defunding of police – coupled with taxpayer dollars spent on police security details protecting public officials– only occurred in cities run by Democratic mayors.


                  Yeah, they never cut their own tax-payer funded security detail.

                  It's like the celebutards who declare that nobody should own a gun while surrounded by armed body guards -- but then at least they pay for their own security.

                  I'm always still in trouble again

                  "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                  "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                  "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                    Yeah, it's the grayer or murkier calls that will be of the most concern.

                    And then there is that nasty law of unintended consequences...

                    You will start getting family members or other loved ones calling in when someone is having a psychotic episode and is potentially very dangerous, but doesn't want the police involved for whatever reason(s), so they describe the problem in a way that keeps them uninvolved and places some paramedic or mental health worker placed in a lethal situation.
                    911 operators are trained to make these types of decisions and know what to do if it is "murky" - they do that now with determining if the police need to be involved in medical or fire calls. And if the ambulance gets to the location and sees a dangerous situation, they too call in the police.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Sparko View Post

                      911 operators are trained to make these types of decisions and know what to do if it is "murky" - they do that now with determining if the police need to be involved in medical or fire calls. And if the ambulance gets to the location and sees a dangerous situation, they too call in the police.
                      For ALL 911 calls, our dispatchers are told to roll a police unit "IAOS" --- In the area / out of sight --- just in case. Naturally, if there's even a probability of violence, they are sent directly to the scene. But on those "murky" calls - "IAOS".

                      Remember the ambushes years ago when people would call the fire department, then shoot at them when they arrived? (I believe that was part of "the Chicago way" that also happened in Los Angeles and Boston)

                      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                      Comment

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